Groundspeak Portal

I know this isn't unique to my area and it happens in places all around the world. How about underwater towns? The lake where I was raised has around 10 towns partially or fully submerged once they put in the dam to stop the flooding farther down the river. Coordinates to some would be easy if they are still partial above water but others could be given as overlooks to a rough set of coords out in the lake. What say you? Swizzle

As you said, access is an issue.  What's to waymark once it is underwater?  A memory?  If it is partially submerged and partly not, then what are you actually waymarking?  What would you photograph and where would you get coordinates?

Sure, your lake isn't unique, but I still think lack of prevalence might be an issue.

I remember travelling along the Columbia River Gorge and watching The Dalles Dam going up, back in the 50's.  We always went through Arlington, but most of the town was moved to higher ground, though it's still there.  What we lost was Celilo Falls.  Fortunately, photos abound of the network of wooden scaffolding built out over the falls by the local Native Americans who had salmon fishing rights, with their nets to snag the fish as they lept up the falls on their way to their spawning grounds.  The dam has an extensive fishladder system.

Couldn't these potentially go into Ghost Towns?

I suppose they could go into ghost towns. The one town that we have that is completely submerged still has part of an old road that goes to it. I would waymark the end of that road where it enters the water. Or maybe its time for waymarking to venture out into the water. Some people specifically search for underwater geocaches. Why couldn't this happen? When I hear ghost town I picture a place with remaining buildings but the whole town is abandoned. A true ghost town has no residents. I could easily sift old maps to find out where different roads continued under the waves. Many of those roads still exist and would be easy to find. I know of 5 or 6 roads right off the bat that go to these lost towns. Even now when the water goes down you can find old foundations and stone walls. I'd like to hear several more opinions on this idea before I decide to let this potential catagory sink. Swizzle

I am an officer in the Ghost Towns category.

I am sure if it has corroborating evidence to support it that the listing would be accepted in the Ghost Towns cat.

So an online history that details the loss of the town, A historic plaque, etc would work for "proof that your town is no more.

Wouldn't one of the quailfications for a ghost town be "no residents"? I only know of one town that was completely submerged and near that is a town with only 3 original buildings left. For the completely submerged town I could probably get permission to post a map of the town before the valley was flooded as well as show the sign that stands at the end of the road that goes to an old covered bridge known as Osborne's Bridge, where the town got its name. Is there any clarification on a ghost town? I thought a bunch of old cellar holes close together were reclassified as a settlement. I still think it would be a cool catagory. How would I classify the towns that are partially underwater? I'd much rather see a new catagory like this then another big name store catagory. It has more to offer in history and you can't find stuff like this in a phone book. Swizzle

I think the submerged towns sounds interesting, and probibly one of thiose that is much more prevalent than one would realize.

I seem to recall either a whole town or part of town submerged when the TVA created Percy Priest Lake, just SW of Nashville.

I guess if they would go into Ghost Towns cat. it wouldn't be worth making a new cat.

If Ghost Towns and SUbmerged towns are two sets that intersect, but one isn't a complete subset of the other, explain the parts of submerged that don't overlap Ghost towns, and I'd vote for it.

Do we have a category for underwater landmarks? Places that require SCUBA to get to?

Redneck Parrotheads:

Do we have a category for underwater landmarks? Places that require SCUBA to get to?

We have Dive Sites

Well I guess to truely seperate the 2 you have to get down to the true definition. What is a ghost town vs. what is a lost settlement. I'm sure there are cases where the 2 are deeply interwoven. When I think of ghost town. I think of old buildings that are still recognizable. The towns I'm talking about need to be researched and studied extensively just to find out what was or who may have lived at one cellar hole. Some ghost towns may be 100 years old or more but in my mind the if its a settlement then all that is left is the skelton to be examined. A ghost town still has signs in front of the stores a settlement has pottery shards buried in the cellar hole. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but riddle me this. Waymarking will survive, no doubt, but to thrive we need to lose the yellow pages view from the general public and clump all of those into one catagory and concentrate on what waymarking is really about. If I move into a new town then waymarking is great for showing me where the bare essentials are but isn't that what a phone book is for. I strongly feel if you can find a "store" in a phone book then it has no rights being in a waymark. Walmarts in my mind is not an "interesting or unique" place. Its where I buy my underwhere and TP and maybe some lock in locks for my next cache which will be placed in a place that is "of interest and unique". If it came up to vote and you had to decide one or the other would you vote for the latest greatest new superstore with bargain basement discount prices or for a catagory that holds a little more wow value then 25% off. Swizzle

swizzle:

If I'm wrong then I'm wrong but riddle me this. Waymarking will survive, no doubt, but to thrive we need to lose the yellow pages view from the general public and clump all of those into one catagory and concentrate on what waymarking is really about. If I move into a new town then waymarking is great for showing me where the bare essentials are but isn't that what a phone book is for. I strongly feel if you can find a "store" in a phone book then it has no rights being in a waymark. Walmarts in my mind is not an "interesting or unique" place. Its where I buy my underwhere and TP and maybe some lock in locks for my next cache which will be placed in a place that is "of interest and unique". If it came up to vote and you had to decide one or the other would you vote for the latest greatest new superstore with bargain basement discount prices or for a catagory that holds a little more wow value then 25% off. Swizzle

Well, okay, first of all, Waymarking does not have that "yellow pages" reputation from anyone who's actually taken the three seconds required to review the full category list. For Geocachers who want to thoughtlessly disregard Waymarking, usually in an on-going habit of begging for Virtuals and Locationless caches back, there is clearly no amount of historical, unique, fun and interesting categories and sites that will change their mind. They saw a McDonald's category two years ago and that's all they needed to see.

Next, the category has to be workable. The forum is a great part of the concept development process. You have an idea. Let a bunch of people toss out more ideas, discuss what does and does not work, and do a lot of legwork for you. From this, you can continue to develop the concept until you're writing a full category that clearly defines what's being waymarked and how it's being waymarked. You might even be able to cite examples of what does not fit into the category. Then your officers should help you hammer out details in writing the category... things like phrasing sentences, adjusting criteria, and spelling corrections.

After you have the category written and your officers all agree that it is made of awesome with an official officer vote, it goes to peer review. You bite your nails for about a week while it goes through the whole process and then you receive the final decision (approve/decline) and have access to the comments that were made by voters. You can use these comments to adjust the category where you and your officers agree it's necessary.

There are commercial categories and there are waymarks where the only thing in the Long Description is the physical address and phone number. We can call them "yellow pages waymarking" because they seem to provide very little outside that function. However, commercial categories can have well researched and written waymarks. Likewise, historical and interesting categories will still receive waymark submissions where there's only a physical address and phone number (copypasta'd from another website) in the Long Description. But they are not in the majority. Most waymarkers take a great deal of pride and enjoyment in writing up a good waymark. Likewise, you should take pride and enjoy writing up a good, solid category. Just keep rolling with the process and see what you can do with it to make it work. I think it's a fun idea. :)

(My comments are always too long.)

I've taken the time to scroll through the whole catagory dept. and when I get down to the store catagories. I still feel like its the yellow pages or maybe more appropriatly the advertizing or sponsor section. Resturants I completely understand and can agree with. They have a good amount of info from people like you and me who ate there. Their experiences at a given resturant could easily determine my next meal. I think all of the big retail chain store still should be clumped into one catagory. One other thing I could agree with is stores where you get your perscriptions filled. These things could very well be useful for someone new in town and not sure where to get their vital medication. I know most walmarts if not all have a pharmacy. Our local Walmarts has a subway and a pharmacy. Sorry I guess I'm getting a little to preachy and off topic here.

The one town that I know of that is completely submerged I could make a good guesstimate using an old map and my terrain navigator to get the coords. to the town itself. I would also add the coords to the old road at the point where it use to continue on and under the waves to the town. The waymarker could then be given the option to take there pic from the end of the road or to actually go out on the water and take pics of the surrounding area. If they are really ambitious and had the time and equipment then maybe they could submit pics of the foundations themselves. Granted it probably wouldn't be the greatest pics with the water clarity. I think it would be a really cool way to add your choice of experience to a waymark as well as the history lesson they read before they get there. I would look into doing some research ahead of time to make sure that diving would be allowed on that section of the lake. I don't think there would be a problem but its always better to be safe then sorry. One other way to get the underwater pics is through the ice with my fish cam. I have a 100feet of cable on it and I think the deepest spot in the whole lake is about 70 feet. Just some other thoughts for you guys to bat around. I'd like to see more discussion on it for a few days or weeks before it goes to the next step to be voted on. How would I take it to the next step anyways? Swizzle

If I can echo what RNPH has said, I am doing just that. There is no end to the enjoyable content on Waymarking.

Anyone has the option to "filter out" commercial categories with a simple click of a mouse button.

While I often waste my breath trying to suggest to Geocachers that there are many enjoyable listings to be visited, and yet they still prefer to complain about any of the following (micros, earthcaches, lamp skirts, drive-bys, unmaintained caches, puzzles, damage to plants....) but flat out refuse to try Waymarking and offer no reason for their choice except "I like finding something"... which sounds rather hypocritical.

The true test that I've found is "Hey, would you log this if it was a Virtual Cache"... and 100% of the time the answer I get back is "Absolutely"... you do the math!

BQ

yes, bruce is a pioneer, and i too see that one day i will stop caching--too many bad apples there.....
you cant really run me and my camera off the sidewalk. and i potentially see that i might stop posting marks at some point (not going into that here), but you can never stop me visiting .....i have no problem holding onto pics for several years (or more if necessary) waiting on someone else to post it.....

a NRHP or Historic Markere can sometime be as difficult to find as a nano, but much more rewarding.....(i have found more micros in this county that all other caches everywhere combined)

swizzle:

I've taken the time to scroll through the whole catagory dept. and when I get down to the store catagories. I still feel like its the yellow pages or maybe more appropriatly the advertizing or sponsor section. Resturants I completely understand and can agree with. They have a good amount of info from people like you and me who ate there. Their experiences at a given resturant could easily determine my next meal. I think all of the big retail chain store still should be clumped into one catagory. One other thing I could agree with is stores where you get your perscriptions filled. These things could very well be useful for someone new in town and not sure where to get their vital medication. I know most walmarts if not all have a pharmacy. Our local Walmarts has a subway and a pharmacy. Sorry I guess I'm getting a little to preachy and off topic here.

You aren't alone in your feeling. But I've said it before and I don't mind repeating it, that I think commercial categories can have their place. A category just has to explain to me what is being waymarked and why it's being waymarked. What's unique about Home Depot that I'd want to waymark one if I saw one? Wal-marts are everywhere... but what makes them different enough to waymark them? That's what I want to see. Something that kills me is that Wendy's category is written like you're just waymarking a place where you eat lunch when, in fact, it actually has an interesting history.

The one town that I know of that is completely submerged I could make a good guesstimate using an old map and my terrain navigator to get the coords. to the town itself. I would also add the coords to the old road at the point where it use to continue on and under the waves to the town. The waymarker could then be given the option to take there pic from the end of the road or to actually go out on the water and take pics of the surrounding area. If they are really ambitious and had the time and equipment then maybe they could submit pics of the foundations themselves. Granted it probably wouldn't be the greatest pics with the water clarity. I think it would be a really cool way to add your choice of experience to a waymark as well as the history lesson they read before they get there. I would look into doing some research ahead of time to make sure that diving would be allowed on that section of the lake. I don't think there would be a problem but its always better to be safe then sorry. One other way to get the underwater pics is through the ice with my fish cam. I have a 100feet of cable on it and I think the deepest spot in the whole lake is about 70 feet. Just some other thoughts for you guys to bat around. I'd like to see more discussion on it for a few days or weeks before it goes to the next step to be voted on. How would I take it to the next step anyways? Swizzle

The steps are this: (1) create a group; (2) have at least two more premium account holders as officers, it's recommended that you recruit experienced waymarkers instead of geocaching buddies; (3) write the category; (4) communicate with your officers to tweek the category; (4) submit it to officer vote; (5) submit it to peer review.

If the category passes peer review, it is added to the directory and you can make the category public to begin accepting waymarks. If the category is declined, it's back to the drawing board. Once you begin the process of writing a new category after a decline, the previous category will be inaccessible (as will the peer review comments from that vote), so make sure you've looked everything over before restarting.

If you don't wish to pursue a category after a peer view decline, groups can always be renamed and recycled to manage a different category if the officers agree with helping with the new concept.

Check out the Help Section for FAQs.

Yes I know you can filter out certain catagories and I've already started my own ignore list. For some reason it took me more then 10 minutes to ignore just 2 catagories. Not sure if that's a glitch on my computer or on groundspeak's end. I wish there was a way you could click on a dozen or so and ignore them all at once.

I'm sure that I can post this one town in the scuba as well as ghost town catagory but that still would leave the question about the other partially submerged towns. I don't think they should quailify as a ghost town but it does still hold some historic significance. Definitely worth waymarking in my mind. I doubt I'll ever fully get out of cachin'. I like watching my travel bugs and seeing the geocoins and looking forward to setting up trail clearing events in the near future. Geocaching can be really good, and fun. It's the filtering process that I guess I'll need to master. I came across the same type of conversation with TB's. Basically a catagory that I think is down right lame and should be done away with is exactly what someone else is going to think about some of my favorite catagories. So I guess I should bite my tounge on the retail stores catagory and just let it be. Personally I love the idea of a submerged town catagory well someone else is going to think its dumb and still another person will say that its unnecessary when we have other catagories that it will fit in. I think the ghost town catagory is a way of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Just my thoughts. Swizzle

swizzle:

Yes I know you can filter out certain catagories and I've already started my own ignore list. For some reason it took me more then 10 minutes to ignore just 2 catagories. Not sure if that's a glitch on my computer or on groundspeak's end.

You can ignore whole departments. At least I can.

There are 15 departments.  You can ignore each of them completely if you wish.

Each department is broken into categories. Each department has categories and subcategories listed  on its page.

If a department has a subcategory listed it is denoted with a + sign.  this indicates there are additional categories here.  These subcategories can be ignored if you open them up.

An example of this is the Food & Drink subcategory in the Business/Commerce Dept.The potential problem is that if you ignore one item using the dept or subcategory ignore feature you ignore them all.  So lets say you hate all of the Food and Drink categories except for Bubble Tea.

You will need to ignore all of the other 28 categories and subcategories individually to keep Bubble Tea visible. If you can live with out your Bubble Tea then ignore the whole subcategory with a click of your mouse.

That's cool. I didn't know that and that could be quite useful. Thanx for pointing that out. What's bubble tea? Swizzle

I think I'm gonna go ahead and submit this as a catagory suggestion. If it gets declined then I'm sure I'll come up with a few more easily rejected ideas in the near future. I'm bound to get one catagory approved. Swizzle

Ok, Now what?

http://www.waymarking.com/groups/details.aspx?f=1&guid=213d6824-bd17-46ef-b0e0-7105af78750f&Command=Add

Swizzle

swizzle:

Ok, Now what?

join my group

Swizzle

I've converted your URL to be a link... however you need to set "Open Enrollment" to be on. Right now no one can join your group unless you invite them.

BQ

Thanx for the link. I think its all set now. Swizzle

swizzle:

What's bubble tea? Swizzle

From the category description.

"What exactly is Boba? Boba is basically tapioca. When perfectly cooked it turns into a brown ball with a certain degree of transparency on its outer walls. It is chewy and slippery: soft and gooey on the outside, and chewy within. Boba by itself is not sweet; it is rather tasteless. When serving Boba, it is best to soak it in honey or sugar syrup to keep it soft and flavored. It can be added to a variety of drinks, both hot and cold."

I had never heard of it either and didn't like the idea of a category but now that it is up and running I sought out a shop and found that it is something that I enjoy to an extent.

It is a fun and unique drink.....that I would no longer consider filtering out.....I can't ignore it's goodness anymore" 

TheBeanTeam:

It is a fun and unique drink.....that I would no longer consider filtering out.....I can't ignore it's goodness anymore" 

I have to echo that sentiment. I never heard of it before the category came out, and now I just love it. It like having bits of lightly flavored gummy bears come up through your straw when you drink. Then you chew them up before swallowing, and it makes you feel fuller.

what, am i the only one with a taste for tapoica pudding?