Groundspeak Portal

The issue of regional franchises has come up several times for discussion.  While there are those that detest all commercial categories, and franchises in particular, I do believe they have a legitimate place in waymarking.  I've got a really interesting visit log that illustrates this if I can find it.

Anyway, what I'm considering is two categories - one for regional coffee shops, and one for regional pizza places.  Both of these seem to be fairly common.  In both cases there are categories for national/international franchises and for independent places.  The regional chains fall into a gap. 

I think by limiting one category to a single type of establishment, we can keep it manageable.  I would like to have a drop down menu variable for the name of the franchise, and this could be expanded whenever a new franchise is submitted.  This would keep the category organized.

A little trickier is defining "regional."  Sometimes there are shops that have several outlets in a small area, but are still really independent, often family owned.  And, I don't want to get mired in the difference between company owned chains and true franchises.  Even requiring outlets in more than one state/province (for North America) might eliminate some groups that are neither independent nor national.  For other countries, I would be inclined to include chains/franchises that are confined to one country as being "regional."

So, this is again is open for discussion, and also a call for those who would be interested in being part of a managment group for either or both of these groups if it looks as if they'll fly.

I agree. I don't really like the huge national chain resturants as categories. However, I do like small local resturants. They have character, a unique flavor and local atmosphere. Finding one is a treat rather then the ho-hum of there's another McD's. Many locals resturants have more than one location and therefore don't qualify as independent, depending on the category wording. I would support the category and even be an officer.

I think a limit should be set as to how many locations or area of coverage. Just because a chain is in more than one country shouldn't disallow it.

Fatcat

I touched on the coffee idea a while back in this thread that may have some ideas SQ.

The drop down list is a great idea if you could get officers that would assist with adding the new ones  to the variables that would even be better.

What kind of verification would you require that it was regional and not an independent coffee shop?

Okay, we have two new groups ready for you to join:

Regional Pizza Shops

Regional Coffee Shops

We'll try to pre-populate a drop-down list of regional chains, then there will be criteria for adding a new chain to the group.   So, we'll be soliciting names of regional chains that you know of in each of these categories.  I would think that most of these would have a web site.

As soon as we have the officers, we'll work on putting together the details of the category and post them here for comment and suggestions.

I like the general idea, but I have two questions:

1. Where is the border between local and national?

2. What about burgers in addition to coffee and pizza?

The reson for my question: I'd love to log the only hones Burger Chain - In-n-Out burger. The franchise is active in California, Nevada, Utah and Arizona. http://www.in-n-out.com/locations.asp

Is that still local?

Bernd das Brot Team:

I like the general idea, but I have two questions:

1. Where is the border between local and national?

2. What about burgers in addition to coffee and pizza?

The reson for my question: I'd love to log the only hones Burger Chain - In-n-Out burger. The franchise is active in California, Nevada, Utah and Arizona. http://www.in-n-out.com/locations.asp

Is that still local?

I think it is. National would be over half the country (in the US). In Europe, with their smaller countries I could see regional crossing borders, like maybe in Norway, Sweden and Finland.

Fatcat

Bernd das Brot Team:

I like the general idea, but I have two questions:

1. Where is the border between local and national?

2. What about burgers in addition to coffee and pizza?

The reson for my question: I'd love to log the only hones Burger Chain - In-n-Out burger. The franchise is active in California, Nevada, Utah and Arizona. http://www.in-n-out.com/locations.asp

Is that still local?

It'd be great to have somewhere to post Whataburger restaurants.
http://www.whataburger.com
Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida.

Bernd das Brot Team:

I like the general idea, but I have two questions:

1. Where is the border between local and national?

2. What about burgers in addition to coffee and pizza?

The reson for my question: I'd love to log the only hones Burger Chain - In-n-Out burger. The franchise is active in California, Nevada, Utah and Arizona. http://www.in-n-out.com/locations.asp

Is that still local?

1.  Here is what I am proposing as a definition.  I'm certainly open to suggestions, but this is a starting point for discussion:

What qualifies as a REGIONAL franchise or chain:

1. Any franchise or chain already on the list!

    As new waymarks are submitted, that franchise/chain will be added to the variable drop-down list and we'll try to keep the list here updated.

 2. Basic definition for the United States and Canada

     * In general a chain should have outlets in several states, although in some cases they may be confined to one large state.
     * If a group of businesses is family owned, or has only a few outlets in a smaller geographic area, then it is probably in independent shop.
     * The line between REGIONAL and NATIONAL is more difficult to draw.   We will try to be flexible on this, but in general we will follow these guidelines:
                  - Outlets in fewer than 20 states
                  - Confined to a geographic region such as west coast, east coast, midwest or south.
                    (usually there will be a concentration in the original city or state, dispersed outward.
      
3. Chains outside Canada and the United States

     * Franchises or chains that are confined to one country will be considered "regional" for the purposes of this category.
     * Franchises or chains that have outlets in more than one country may be considered regional if it is a relatively small group and still confined a small, well-defined area.  These will be evaluated on a case by case basis.

2.  I think each category should have a clear focus.  That is why there is one for pizza and one for coffee shops.  Sure, very few places have only one category of food or beverage on the menu, but usually it is clear what the focus or specialty is.  Most places serve coffee, but not all would be identified as a coffee shop, esp. a regional chain.  Many places serve pizza, but the focus needs to be on pizza, not a general Italian menu or one item among general food offerings.

So, In-N-Out is out.  (surprisingly good, though)

But, since you asked, and since there are other similar ones, here is a new group for Regional Burger Chains.  Open enrollment is ON.

Still looking for more members for the regional coffee shops and pizza chains, too.

fatcat161:

I agree. I don't really like the huge national chain resturants as categories. However, I do like small local resturants. They have character, a unique flavor and local atmosphere. Finding one is a treat rather then the ho-hum of there's another McD's. Many locals resturants have more than one location and therefore don't qualify as independent, depending on the category wording. I would support the category and even be an officer.

I think a limit should be set as to how many locations or area of coverage. Just because a chain is in more than one country shouldn't disallow it.

Fatcat

In regard to the definition of independent:  Just because a business has more than one outlet doesn't mean that it is not independent, in my opinion.  For instance, some fifty years ago a lady started an independent fish restaurant called Mo's, on the Oregon Coast.  Some years later she opened a second location nearby.  Over the years the family continued to own and operate the business and now there are five or six locations on the coast.  It is still family owned and operated, so it meets my definition of independent.  There is a group of about five restaurants called Toro Loco in southern Ohio where we lived for awhile.  As with Mo's, each one is different, but they are owned and operated by a family, and therefore independent.

I would think that if there are outlets in more than one country, though, the chain is beyond regional, although, in some cases it could be regional.  Is there a chain that covers the state of New York and the Province of Ontario, for instance?

Take a look at the proposed criteria I've posted and let me know what you think.  We can go from there.

Okay, three categories for regional chains have been formed, and your ideas and suggestions are solicited.

I know many dislike all commercial categories, and especially franchises and chains.  I'm not saying they're my favorite either, and I've never gone out of my way to waymark one.  They are what I call "incidental waymarks."  If I'm close to one for some reason, and I'm in the mood, I may do it.  Anyway, I'm just trying to respond to what has been expressed periodically, and in previous discussion, as something some people would enjoy, by creating these three categories:

Coffee Shops - Regional Chains
Pizza Shops - Regional Chains
Burger Shops - Regional Chains

These are essentially clones, so if you look at one, the others are the same.  I think this gives each category a clear focus rather than trying to have a huge, omnibus category for regional chains.  There are probably others along a similar vein, but this is as far as I want to go right now.

Let me know what you think before we shove these out for peer review.

I didn't see anything that I want to change.
I did have to reread the bit about if it's a New Franchise or Chain, but upon rereading, I like it.