Groundspeak Portal

Our Space Flight Memorials Category requires proposed Waymarks be accessible to the general public.  I just turned a proposed Waymark down because it is inside a restricted area and the public cannot get to it.   The person who proposed it argued that there are many Waymarks on military/government sites the public is not allowed into.

So, my question is . . .

I thought the idea of Waymarks was for ordinary people to visit them. If they're inaccessible it would defeat this purpose.  Is it true that Waymarks can be inaccessible to the public?

NOTE:  The answer doesn't matter in our case since it is a stated requirement of our Category.

Even if it cannot be accessed on a routine basis if it fits the rest of the criteria I will gladly list it.

Most can be visited during open houses, public days etc.

To exclude the item from listing because it cannot be viewed by everyone does not make the item non-existent. The listing may be the only way many of us ordinary people even know of it and it should be recorded somewhere for posterity.

I don't think there are visiting days on military bases, but I may be wrong.

In the event that there are only special conditions/days they waymark can be visited should the specifics of what must be done to access the waymark be listed in the waymark description?

As long as the waymark is listed as being inaccessible except in special circumstances I think it should be fine.

There are many people on military bases. Some geocache. Why not let them waymark too. 

I have no problem with a waymark that may not be accessible to the general public if there are times or ways for a person to access it and it is clearly indicated in the waymark that it is not always accessible.  In some ways sharing location as a waymark that is otherwise inaccessible is a good thing, at least then people can experience the location virtually and know of the location even if they can not physically visit the location. 

I think the most important part be that it be clearly labeled that it has limited availability.

I think that this falls into another quirky criteria that varies from one category to another.

Things may have changed in recent years, but within the last 10 years I am certain that at least some U.S. military bases did allow civilian visits under certain circumstances.

In the grand scheme of things, there are any number of waymarks that can't be visited by some individuals for reasons of location, economics, or physical ability. I'm ok with the general idea of waymarks being able to be visited by some of the people, some of the time.

just wait till tomorrow when i post the 'illuminated sports field' the military academy plays football on.....

hey, sounds like a special event to attend on campus to me.....

speaking of high school football--arent most of those waymarks in the 'selective availablilty' type? yea, ive posted and visited some from 'outside the fence', but to truly exprerience it you need to see a game under the lights....

this is the mark in question

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM8DGW_Alan_Shepard_Admiral_Farragut_Academy_St_Petersburg_FL

the specific veterans and FIRST didnt have a problem approving the same point, nor the many other posted waymarks found on the school campus....

they wouldnt memorialize it if it wasnt worth sharing....

the same goes for the Lunar Landing (both manned and unmanned) memorial at Epcot....it is at a space themed ride for jeebus' sake [you know, mission space]....

and the only 1 waymark in this category per 200 ft radius is absurd....just think how mant historic markers could not be posted....the lawrenceville, ga courthouse has 10 in the same spot.....

Wow, I was just discussing this today with my husband. There is an Oklahoma Centennial Clock that is going to be installed at the FAA. The concern is that depending on where it is placed, the general public would not have access to the clock to prove a visit. If I understand from the forum, IF the clock is indeed only accessible to those with security passes, I just need to specify that on the waymark page. I am hoping that they display it outside the gate, where the general public and view the clock.  I'm glad this topic came up.

theres always this example:

GC17N7R

the logging instructions state: You will need to take a photo of the lighthouse and Lighthouse erosion evidence and post it in your log. You will need at least a 15x optical zoom camera and stand to get photo.


or
WM1WXN

so, if you need that for the earthcache, you need it for the waymark(s)......

so, this seems oftly inacessable to me......

max: as long as you make it plain that you cant just walk up to it.....maybe find a place to stand where they can 'zoom in' and see it--like through the fence or a viewing platform....

on the other hand.....there is
WM10F1 that is located in the middle of a building. you dont get in unless you have a badge or know someone who works there....

i have also posted many fountains and clocks and things inside gated communities--some you can see from 'outside' others you need to visit someone inside....

restricted access has never been a problem until this category....and this waymark....

or this one, which is definately not accessible to every one all the time....

WM3AZA

if something was totally inacessable, then it wouldnt get posted in the first place.....noone coudve got there.....and, really, noone coudve installed it either....

I think waymarks inside airports is a good example of Inaccessable waymarks.

You couldn't go out to an airport with the only purpose of the trip being to log a waymark. You would have to go out with the intent of taking a tripm and happen to visit the waymark.

The airport is the best parallel to the Military Academy example.

gt.us:

I think waymarks inside airports is a good example of Inaccessable waymarks. You couldn't go out to an airport with the only purpose of the trip being to log a waymark. You would have to go out with the intent of taking a tripm and happen to visit the waymark. The airport is the best parallel to the Military Academy example.

I have more then 50 waymarks on the grounds of both the United States Military Academy and  Lackland Air Force Base.  In both cases these are not open to the general public but the public can gain access for certain events and I kept the waymarks to places the public could access.  When it came the the United States Military Academy, I had to keep the public access in mind as I had access to areas not generally accessible to those granted access to the installation.

There is a Waymark near us that is on Boy Scout property and generally not available.  I wish the page were specific that it can only be accessed with permission from the Scouts, but I have no problem that it was listed.  If I ever have the offer to enter the property or the opportunity to make a visit, I will do so.  I agree that it is worthwhile to post Waymarks even if they have limited access.

miatabug:

  I wish the page were specific that it can only be accessed with permission from the Scouts, but I have no problem that it was listed. 

You should go in and edit the listing to reflect the limited access now that we have edit abilities.

I am fairly new to waymarking, however I don't think there should ever be a reason to turn down a waymark because it is not accessible.

If you can get photos and post them without getting in trouble, the waymark is still there.

Again - I think it should be clearly stated that the area is off-limits to the general public.

All local laws apply.

If one person can gain access to the site in order to make a Waymark, then that should be good enough to publish it.  Documenting locations is what we are doing and sometimes the ones we are documenting are special due in part to the limited access aspect.

At the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge there is an old Waymark that I am determined to log a Visit on.  I've talked to Canadian Customs, Can-US Border Services... the location is simply not pedestrian access.  I even asked if they would take me out there and they declined.  However, one can ride a bike across or wait for a day of heavy traffic at the border when it would be simple to take the photo from the passenger seat.  I plan to bike over one day and return at another crossing point.  The point is, there is a way.. and if you need special permission then see how you can get it.

BQ

There is a difference between a object and an activity.

A waymarkable private residence should only be waymarked from the public right-of-way.  You would not run up to their door step and start snapping photos and grabbing coordinates.  BUT you can still visit it and appreciate it for what it was waymarked for.

As for activities...

I specifically identified private funiculars as not being appropriate for the Public Funicular and Incline Railway category even if they were visible from the public right-of-way.  Why?  Because you could not visit it and appreciate it for what it is.  As a visitor, you have to be able to participate in the activity if you so choose (seasonal sites excluded).

Why should general accessibility be an issue?

Visiting a waymark is not the ONLY value of a waymark nor the only way to enjoy a waymark.  So, I don't think it should be an exclusionary criterion, in general.  (Specific categories can make this exclusion if they want to, of course, for whatever reason).

I DO think, however, that the person creating the waymark must have personally visited the location.   There are a few categories which may accept waymarks of a viewing location, such as a waterfall, for instance.   Just as in geocaching, there may be some waymark sites/objects that are a challenge to access.   (I just placed a cache on an island that is accessible only at low tide.  No waymark there, though).
y
If the waymark is on private property, sites with restricted or permit-only access, limited open hours, etc. then as long as the waymark was created without violating anything, then I think it is a goyod waymark.

There may be others who can, in fact, access it.  And, there are many who enjoy visiting waymarks online.  I'm not sure how accessible the confluence of the Tigris and Euphrates is, but I'm glad there is a waymark for it!   One of the things that Waymarking does is record these locations for those who would otherwise probably never get to see them.   To my view, Waymarking helps open up the world this way.

cldisme:

A waymarkable private residence should only be waymarked from the public right-of-way.  You would not run up to their door step and start snapping photos and grabbing coordinates.  BUT you can still visit it and appreciate it for what it was waymarked for.

I'd like to qualify this statement in this way: I don't think it's inappropriate to walk close enough to an historical marker to be able to read it. Thus it's not inappropriate to take a photo from that same distance (unless it's Posted No Trespassing or there's a barrier like a fence with a gate in the way).
My feeling is that the people that live there knew what they were getting into when they got the marker or bought the home with the marker on it.

On the other hand, I have a camera with a good optical zoom and an add-on lens to make an even greater zoom. So I usually take my photos and coordinates from the public right-of-way anyway.

My thought is that many many more virtual visits are made to a waymark than physical visits.

So, I see more value in the waymark being created than being visitable.

or what if a waymarking class project wants to focus on 'x' category or subject....the fact that our data is out there would be beneficial, if the only way they ever 'visit' is from their armchair....

knowledge is power.

Good point and I am liking the idea of a class doing a project using waymarks. I am a social studies teacher and on the lookout for ways to incorporate waymarking into the classroom, your idea has my mind a working, thanks

SHR was a little before my time, but rocky still had his little tidbits to install during commercial breaks....

ive always been told that you dont know a subject yourself until you teach it to someone else....

i like teaching others through waymarks....even if its only myself since it seems that some will never be visited [in person] by anyone [though millions might pass it every year].