Groundspeak Portal

well, i did have the key west aids memorial....

till someone decided it was a 'disaster memorial'--this happened when note were going out. so i dont know how that turned out....

IMO, aids is not a disaster. a tornado/hurricane/earthquake is....

and that is part of the aspect of uncategorized waymarks....hey, the religious guys have pics, they need a religion expert to tell us who they are....this is not my idea, tell that to the religious statue people......

and i bet thre are thousands of people with a pic of gracie that would love to share it and log their visit (they just might not know about waymarking yet)....

half cooked waymarks? what about places that we wanted to share with the waymarking community? so what if it is a Burger King or a payphone? there is a category for that, so someone has enough of an interest that they want you to post them....

uncategorized waymarks are for n00bs--who dont know what the 941 categories were for.

uncategorized marks are for advanced waymarkers - i posted something i though would stand until enough others were 'found' and someone would create a category for it (aids memorials)

then i went back through my declined marks i had saved and have asked for my peers to help complete the details. a legitimate function of uncategorized waymarks.

if you look at the dates on all the marks you hint at, they were created before this was a function....

opinionate:

The resulting categorized waymark recognizes the user who originally contributed the proto-waymark with a credit on the page.

I just helped to categorize an uncategorized waymark (WM7M4D) and now I'm the one who gets the credit for the waymark... in other words, I'm the new owner!  WHAT?  The original poster does get "credit" on the page, but is not the owner... I'm not so sure I like this...

Big B Bob:

opinionate:

The resulting categorized waymark recognizes the user who originally contributed the proto-waymark with a credit on the page.

I just helped to categorize an uncategorized waymark (WM7M4D) and now I'm the one who gets the credit for the waymark... in other words, I'm the new owner!  WHAT?  The original poster does get "credit" on the page, but is not the owner... I'm not so sure I like this...

Ya poor  SecurB has submitted 12 uncategorized waymarks and that BruceS has gone and made 32 waymarks out of them.     Your concern was main objections to the uncategorized waymarks.

 I have used capability to my advantage when I have waymarks I want to post to multiple categories.  SecurB posts them and BruceS clones them into the desired categories.  I will not take someone else's uncategorized waymark... If I know how to make it work, I will email the submitter and have him put it in the right category instead.

BruceS:

Big B Bob:

opinionate:

The resulting categorized waymark recognizes the user who originally contributed the proto-waymark with a credit on the page.

I just helped to categorize an uncategorized waymark (WM7M4D) and now I'm the one who gets the credit for the waymark... in other words, I'm the new owner!  WHAT?  The original poster does get "credit" on the page, but is not the owner... I'm not so sure I like this...

Ya poor  SecurB has submitted 12 uncategorized waymarks and that BruceS has gone and made 32 waymarks out of them.     Your concern was main objections to the uncategorized waymarks.

 I have used capability to my advantage when I have waymarks I want to post to multiple categories.  SecurB posts them and BruceS clones them into the desired categories.  I will not take someone else's uncategorized waymark... If I know how to make it work, I will email the submitter and have him put it in the right category instead.

I really think you need to see a shrink about your split personality...

Big B Bob:

I really think you need to see a shrink about your split personality...

Naw, he just travels so much sometimes he doesn't know if he's coming or going!  Or, maybe her just meets himself coming around the curve.

Anyway, I think this points out a huge hole in this system.

First, I'm not sure the one who categorizes someone else's waymark should get the number.  True, the originator is acknowledged, but I think it should be the other way - originator gets the number and the "categorizer" gets the blurb.  Of course that could encourage people just doing a bunch of quick uncategorized waymarks, I suppose.  So, in the end, I guess we just have to hang on to this "ownership" thing more loosely.

It also means, though, that I could get "credit" for a waymark in a category, state or country that I have never visited.  Makes the map, the grid, and the footprint features meaningless - or at least suspect.  If one is an avid "bingo" player . . .

This was all brought out by BruceS and others in the pre-release discussion, and I still think it is an unfortunate devleopment.

Nuff said.

I pretty much agree with you, but I'm not going to make a final decision until we hear from lliuqrevlis.

I'm not sure that I agree with everyone else in this topic. It is my impression that when anyone sends content to the "Uncategorized" section that they WANT it to be finished by someone else.

"I've taken this as far as I can. Please take over for me."

If I am the one that categorizes it and completes any needed or optional content because the given content has been released to others, then I assume it is now mine. If people want to retain ownership then they need to go through the whole process. The person that ultimately submits it to the review process is the "poster" and the person that donated the initial content gets credit as well as the "assisted". To send it for review makes you the poster, and that makes sense.

I would think that those that are sending content to the uncategorized area are saying that they are not able to complete the process themselves. And they do get to Visit it once it is posted, and not have to worry about getting emails from other visitors.

BQ

I guess it comes down to who one considers to have contributed the most 'value' to this process - the person who originally discovered the object/location and brought that information to the web site, or the person who was able to identify a category into which to place it.

 

the blue quasar:

I'm not sure that I agree with everyone else in this topic. It is my impression that when anyone sends content to the "Uncategorized" section that they WANT it to be finished by someone else. "I've taken this as far as I can. Please take over for me." If I am the one that categorizes it and completes any needed or optional content because the given content has been released to others, then I assume it is now mine. If people want to retain ownership then they need to go through the whole process. The person that ultimately submits it to the review process is the "poster" and the person that donated the initial content gets credit as well as the "assisted". To send it for review makes you the poster, and that makes sense. I would think that those that are sending content to the uncategorized area are saying that they are not able to complete the process themselves. And they do get to Visit it once it is posted, and not have to worry about getting emails from other visitors. BQ

Point well-taken.

In posting an uncategorized waymark, one is thereby giving consent for someone else to complete and "adopt" the waymark.

In that case, I would recommend that a prominently displayed consent message be displayed, making it clear to the waymark originator, that he/she consents to transfer "credit" (if "ownership" is too strong a word) to someone else.  I don't think everyone would be aware of this.  Especially, if this is an attempt to attract new waymarkers, they need to know exactly what happens when they submit an uncategorized waymark.  Maybe the existing statement is clear, but I think it needs to be emphasized that someone else's name will appear as the PRIMARY waymark creator.

Okay, so you may see one of these categorized waymarks in one of your categories that I just did.  And, it was just that - someone that didn't know which category to put it in.  Actually, I submitted it to two, so we'll see what happens.  And, it's from some place I've never been.

This was primarily for a test, and I think I agree with BruceS that a better approach might have been to contact the waymarker with the information.  The only problem with that, if I understand correctly, that once submitted as an uncategorized waymark, the originator cannot categorize it - essentially losing all control over it.  I think that is a mistake.  Maybe after submitting it, he does some research, someone tells him, or he otherwise becomes aware of the correct category - but, he's locked out of his own waymark!

(Also tried BruceS's little trick, so we'll see how that goes, too).

silverquill:

This was primarily for a test, and I think I agree with BruceS that a better approach might have been to contact the waymarker with the information.  The only problem with that, if I understand correctly, that once submitted as an uncategorized waymark, the originator cannot categorize it - essentially losing all control over it.  I think that is a mistake.  Maybe after submitting it, he does some research, someone tells him, or he otherwise becomes aware of the correct category - but, he's locked out of his own waymark!

(Also tried BruceS's little trick, so we'll see how that goes, too).

A person who submits an uncategorized waymark can categorize, edit, and about do anything with their uncategorized waymark.  Once the submitter of an uncategorized waymark categorizes it just becomes an unfinished waymark waiting to be submitted.  In fact the person can completely change the uncategorized waymark to total different context even after it has been categorized.

the blue quasar:

I'm not sure that I agree with everyone else in this topic. It is my impression that when anyone sends content to the "Uncategorized" section that they WANT it to be finished by someone else. "I've taken this as far as I can. Please take over for me." If I am the one that categorizes it and completes any needed or optional content because the given content has been released to others, then I assume it is now mine. If people want to retain ownership then they need to go through the whole process. The person that ultimately submits it to the review process is the "poster" and the person that donated the initial content gets credit as well as the "assisted". To send it for review makes you the poster, and that makes sense. I would think that those that are sending content to the uncategorized area are saying that they are not able to complete the process themselves. And they do get to Visit it once it is posted, and not have to worry about getting emails from other visitors. BQ

Well as it stand currently there is only one person who actually says they have read guidelines and that the waymark complies with the terms of use agreement.... it is the original submitter of the uncategorized waymark and not the person who categorized it.  This may have been an oversight however but following your outline the categorizer should be the only person who should have to agree with these check boxes as the original person really didn't do much but put up initial content.

.    I agree for a person to have "ownership" of a waymark they need to go through the whole process.... Lets see as it stands the person getting the "ownership" of the waymark  does he go through the whole process?   Does he go to the site?  Probably not   Does he take any photos?  Probably not  Does he record any coordinates?  Probably not.  Does he do the initial content write up?  No.  Does he agree to the terms of the site?  No.   What does he do,  he selects a category, maybe fills in a few variables and he clicks submit.   Does that really sound like the whole process you to? Doesn't to me.

How this should have been set up is that categorizer recommends a category, which then opens up variables and he completes those he can, then  it should go back to the original submitter to complete and submit.  It would work much like the edits work except it would be between the original submitter and categorizer.

BruceS:

A person who submits an uncategorized waymark can categorize, edit, and about do anything with their uncategorized waymark.  Once the submitter of an uncategorized waymark categorizes it just becomes an unfinished waymark waiting to be submitted.  In fact the person can completely change the uncategorized waymark to total different context even after it has been categorized.

I stand corrected!

I remember now, it is that once the originator categorizes and initially uncategorized waymark, it converts back to, as you say, merely an unfinished waymark until submitted.  If another person categorizes it, then it becomes an "assisted waymark" and the link to the original uncategorized waymark remains for additional categorizations and submissions.

BruceS:

How this should have been set up is that categorizer recommends a category, which then opens up variables and he completes those he can, then  it should go back to the original submitter to complete and submit.  It would work much like the edits work except it would be between the original submitter and categorizer.

I think I made a similar statement in the pre-release comments, and I think this is a better approach, and is a true collaborative effort, which seems to be one of the underlying goals here.

The only problem is if the originator has no interest in the resubmitting the waymarker, or is unable to for some reason.  But, I think that is an acceptable eventuality.

The amount of work put into categorizing a waymark could vary all the way from just finding the right category, to actually visiting the site, taking more photos, doing research, etc.  But, I suspect that most of them involve just a little computer work.  Maybe that isn't enough to earn credit, but if the other person has relinquished it to the system, then I suppose that's acceptable, if not totally on par with a one-person waymark.

Maybe, the credit should go to no one as far as stats is concerned.  The main line could read "Collaborative Waymark" and then each person gets a credit line, but it doesn't go into any individual's stats, or goes into an entirely different statistical category, such as "Collaborative Waymarks."   That's be another entry for your blog!

Oh, I got one of my "assisted waymarks" approved.

Along with it was a puzzled query from the reviewing officer (a very active one) asking what an "assisted waymark" was!

I was going to put an explanation in the Private Message box, but it is still MIA, I guess.

But, it does indicate that not everyone has got the word yet, and I think we can expect more puzzlement as some of these begin to funnel into the system.

Anyway, I now have a waymark in a country I have never visited!

Now, I ask you, is that right?

Could have been a new category on the grid for me, too, but I have that one.

Now, I ask you, would that be right?

Just asking . . . .

silverquill:

Anyway, I now have a waymark in a country I have never visited!

Now, I ask you, is that right?

You didn't log a visit did you? Now THAT would be wrong if you didn't really visit.

But yeah, this seems a little iffy.

BruceS:

How this should have been set up is that categorizer recommends a category, which then opens up variables and he completes those he can, then  it should go back to the original submitter to complete and submit.  It would work much like the edits work except it would be between the original submitter and categorizer.

i thought this is how it was supposed to work.....

you submit a UCM.

i click a few times, that sends a 'conformation notice' to the person who posts it there. saying 'i' submitted it to 'X' [and X, X,X X, and X (?)]

when 'published' they get an 'approval notice'.....(maybe me too?)

and we both get a 'denied notice'....then either of us could make the edits (i just clicked, they might know what to do to 'fix' it) or send it back to UCMs.....

then it is their mark, i get no icons (locations on the map) to light up. i get a +1 in the 'assisted marks' tally box .....

This is why I don't like using the uncategorized category feature. I think since the beginning Groundspeak said that credit for posting would go to the helper. I just find it weird to categorize a waymark and get all the credit when I've never been there. I seems like armchair waymarking.

I have just had an interesting thing happen. I edited the waymark I put in the uncategorized section. Per Bruce's suggestion I listed it in the NRHP category and submitted it but now I can not find it anywhere. It does not appear in MY WAYMARKS que and it appears to be lost in limbo somewhere. There has probably not been time for it to be approved or denied but I wonder where it went?

sprinterman:

I have just had an interesting thing happen. I edited the waymark I put in the uncategorized section. Per Bruce's suggestion I listed it in the NRHP category and submitted it but now I can not find it anywhere. It does not appear in MY WAYMARKS que and it appears to be lost in limbo somewhere. There has probably not been time for it to be approved or denied but I wonder where it went?

NEVER MIND I FOUND IT > IT MAINTAINED THE ORGINAL DATE SO IT WAS DOWN IN THE LIST>

saopaulo1:

This is why I don't like using the uncategorized category feature. I think since the beginning Groundspeak said that credit for posting would go to the helper. I just find it weird to categorize a waymark and get all the credit when I've never been there. I seems like armchair waymarking.

but doesnt this system seem to further alienate n00bs (cachers)?

those arrogant waymarkeres have created a system to steal waymarks from those who do not know the complexities of the game.....

i posted 'X' as a UCM. then 'M' categorizes it and i get none of the credit. they have already posted 75 'Doughboys', but that would have been my first. i didnt know that was a category, and i might not be able to find another to post my self.....

i can add to my #s myself, i dont need to take from others, i want to share with them. i already dont like that some of the games (uhaul) light up places ive never been, but thats why i will never post one in a 'new state' (ill wait to visit, so at least my posted marks map will be accuraite).

sq: now what are you going to do when someone mails you asking questions you cant answer cause all you did was click a few times on a waymark you never been to?

assist means to help someone else, not yourself.
and assisting someone elses stats (from a posted UCM point of view) isnt something you would want to perpetuate.
however assisting someone stats from a categorizer point of view is what we need--to educate about the 1,000+ categories (itll be here soon enough) and the many facets of crossposting.

and what is the difference in the 'winked upon' workaround bruce and SQ set up? why not just copy/paste crosspost infor, like we have done before--you still have to fill out variables on each one individually. i guess this is primarily to only have to upload the pics once......a handy feature we have talked about a long time....

saopaulo1:

This is why I don't like using the uncategorized category feature. I think since the beginning Groundspeak said that credit for posting would go to the helper. I just find it weird to categorize a waymark and get all the credit when I've never been there. I seems like armchair waymarking.

Who the waymark went to changed between the original presentation of the uncategorized waymarks and the final implementation.  The original was that the original submitter would get the waymark and the categorizer would get the assisted credit.  This changed somewhere along the way.

The original thread that introduced uncategorized waymarks then known as orphans is here.  The key line on "credit" is "If the group accepts the waymark, it gains full waymark status and now shows up in regular searches on the site. You get full credit for entering the waymark just as if you had known the category from the start."

chapterhouseinc:

saopaulo1:

This is why I don't like using the uncategorized category feature. I think since the beginning Groundspeak said that credit for posting would go to the helper. I just find it weird to categorize a waymark and get all the credit when I've never been there. I seems like armchair waymarking.

but doesnt this system seem to further alienate n00bs (cachers)? those arrogant waymarkeres have created a system to steal waymarks from those who do not know the complexities of the game..... i posted 'X' as a UCM. then 'M' categorizes it and i get none of the credit. they have already posted 75 'Doughboys', but that would have been my first. i didnt know that was a category, and i might not be able to find another to post my self..... i can add to my #s myself, i dont need to take from others, i want to share with them. i already dont like that some of the games (uhaul) light up places ive never been, but thats why i will never post one in a 'new state' (ill wait to visit, so at least my posted marks map will be accuraite). sq: now what are you going to do when someone mails you asking questions you cant answer cause all you did was click a few times on a waymark you never been to? assist means to help someone else, not yourself. and assisting someone elses stats (from a posted UCM point of view) isnt something you would want to perpetuate. however assisting someone stats from a categorizer point of view is what we need--to educate about the 1,000+ categories (itll be here soon enough) and the many facets of crossposting. and what is the difference in the 'winked upon' workaround bruce and SQ set up? why not just copy/paste crosspost infor, like we have done before--you still have to fill out variables on each one individually. i guess this is primarily to only have to upload the pics once......a handy feature we have talked about a long time....

I agree. I liked the old way of finding categories: asking in the forums. If I don't have a photo to complete a waymark, I don't have a photo. Nothing will change that.

BruceS:

The original thread that introduced uncategorized waymarks then known as orphans is here.  The key line on "credit" is "If the group accepts the waymark, it gains full waymark status and now
shows up in regular searches on the site. You get full credit for
entering the waymark just as if you had known the category from the
start."

exactly. now, why would anything else make sense? it sure sounds like something everyone would want to participate in--not giving away free waymarks, and lighting up icons and maps of places you never been.

BruceS:

How this should have been set up is that categorizer recommends a category, which then opens up variables and he completes those he can, then  it should go back to the original submitter to complete and submit.  It would work much like the edits work except it would be between the original submitter and categorizer.

I agree.

I would also like to be able to submit uncat waymark, then cat it into multiple cats. I often have waymarks cross posted and this would help eliminate a lot of copy/paste.