Groundspeak Portal

Finally this Category Man hole covers went out for Peer Review.

F.Y.I. -  There is also a link to previous discussions on that page. I realize that there will always be negative responses to any Cat. proposal but after looking at the links you might just change your mind.

I thought I'd explain my "no" vote -- well, in time for someone to talk me out of it.

1) I think the category name should be "Unusual Manhole Covers".  It's all well and good to explain that they have to be "unusual" in the category description, but putting it up-front:
a) is more accurate
b) will prevent people from getting the wrong idea about waymarking
c) will save people the trouble of waymarking a cover and getting rejected (since there's no convenient way to carry around the category descriptions).

2) I don't understand the visit instructions.  Also, it seems a little bit weird to put waymarks literally in the middle of the street -- seems to encourage people to play in traffic.

pseudoprime:

I thought I'd explain my "no" vote -- well, in time for someone to talk me out of it.
1) I think the category name should be "Unusual Manhole Covers".  -OpinioNate already corrected that!
 2) I don't understand the visit instructions.  - Why? Simply add a few words.
 Also, it seems a little bit weird to put waymarks literally in the middle of the street -- seems to encourage people to play in traffic.-  We don't "put" them there, they are there already.

Now to the "Nays" in Peer Review.

1. This is not interesting... there is very little historic or artistic value to manhole covers. Just one of  many   Besides, I predict someone WILL get run over. - That is a ridiculous prediction.

2. I still think there will be too many in a given location. - Different ones within a mile? 3. Even the "acceptable" covers just look like ordinary covers to me. So, I vote NO based on the subjectivity of the "Standout" criteria. - What would you consider extraordinary? 4. I've seen some & photographed some 'cool' ones myself...byt in looking at the 'acceptable' link ...some of them dont seem to stand out. I believe this is a little too subjective.. So post the ones you photographed and prove us wrong. 5. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO  - Any reason ? 6. I've seen a lot come and go in waymarking and this is just a joke!! There is room for the serious and the fun in waymarking, but not the totally ridiculous!!! More interesting than 'Telephone booth wouldn't you say?  - Get a life. You sound like my wife! 7. Stuff like this is almost enough for me to give up waymarking - makes my ribbons meaningless to have this kind of stuff in waymarking. Almost as bad as bike racks!! We're on a definite decline if this stuff keeps coming though. It's been fun, but waymarking is taking a lot of hits with this kind of baloney.- You are the ones that vote for or against a Category. Please feel free to ignore this one. I hate to have you get upset over it. 8. I can get 30 or so of these Waymarks in my street. Will take me about an hour to get the photograph and coordinates...  Want to borrow my glasses? It did say something about minimum distance.  Where is the "Wow!" factor? -  Do all or most of the 748 Categories meet your "WOW" factor? 9. The thing is about this category as written is this. How do you know what is a duplicate cover. If I find one that I think is interesting, but the same pattern is already submitted then I am out of luck. That just won't work. - Check your co-ordinates 1st, as you do with other Waymarks and then look for   nearby Waymarks that are the same. 10. I think it needs work. You'r right  Say, if there is a man hole cover every block with the same exact design, would each and every cover be accepted? I think possibly an address and area photo should be included to avoid double listing with bad coordinates. - See answer 2 above. It does & did ask for 2 photos. 11. I don't understand the visit instructions. Also, the title should be "Unusual Manhole Covers". - See above answers . 12. Nothing special, too mundane category  - Sorry you feel that way.     13. How many potential waymarks exist throughout the world? Too few and the category may  be of little or no interest to anyone. Too many and you may end up with a category full of mundane, everyday locations. - Which question  would you like me to comment on? 14. The differences between your unacceptable and your acceptable are very minimal in many cases. This needs a lot more definition because right now there's just way too many posssible waymarks, not to mention arguments over reject waymarkls, possible in this one. I  also foresee  some   different  opinions from both sides.  We'll try hard to be fair and listen to your argument for it as well as we expect you to understand ours if we reject it  or ask you to abide by the Category  requirements... 15. Sorry, but I just wouldn't go out of my way to find a manhole cover, no matter how unusual it may be.  - I'll forgive you as I know there are 747 other Categories out there not wanting you to waste your time on this one. 16. Generally I agree with the 'anything goes' concept of waymarking, but not this time. This proposal is just too 'go play in traffic'. I would've clicked "Yea" if it said: manhole covers in the street are not allowed. Other than that I have the follwing issues: 1. "run of the mill" is an idiom that might not be understandable internationally 2. **any** design could've been 'run of the mill' and thousands made. The entire concept of what is unusual or not is not readily knowable by a traveler. This is the point brought up by Jeremy and this category description does not address the issue. A city or locality could have its name or seal on all of its 10,000 manhole covers. - We love all "person-hole covers" in the middle of the street, on the sidewalk, in a park or even in a parking lot where you hide those  'hideous minis' under lamp posts. We don't discriminate. OTHERS: Too broad, too common not interesting. I am making some changes the next couple of days, wife permitting, as I obviously have to get a life.  --- Thanx to all 76 that responded, with encouragement, suggestions and disdain.

....duplicate post :(

Thanks for the....ummm....."candid" reviews Jake :D

If it's any consulation, I did vote to approve your Category, but I must be honest, mostly out of a desire to find a home for these things I found in my wanderings last week :) (...not knowing, of course, whether they would make the cut in your Category or not):

 

Sorry "touchstone"  you'll have to create your own Category for "Unique Drainage Grates" as this one can't possibly  cover  (pun intended) those too. 
F.Y.I.-(did you know curb drains are designed with the grates facing away from the curb so that your bike wheels wont get caught in them?)

- Only on Waymarking can you get all that information without asking for it -

So, was it approved or not?  I couldn't tell from your post.

When I click on the link from your first post, it says: This category has already been approved.

If it was approved, why are you complaining about the category being critiqued?

And if it was denied, regroup and come up with a better idea.

There are a lot of valid points made by those who voted nay, just because you can respond in bold letters doesn't make them any less valid.

It's not the end of the world... or waymarking... jeez!

Learn to take criticism...  or you will be a very sad waymarker.

Big Booty Bob:

So, was it approved or not?  I couldn't tell from your post.

If it was approved, why are you complaining about the category being critiqued?

It does appear that the category has been approved.  At least what I can see it appears to have gone through.

I believe that Jake39 was simply responding to some potential issues that people brought up during the peer review process.  Some category leaders choose to do so as it opens a dialog to further refine the category, if needed.  It appears that he chose to respond in bold in order to simply separate the concern from his response.  It wasn't intended to validate his point over the concern.

Jake39:

5. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO  - Any reason ?

This is my favorite quote. I can just imagine little waymarkers around the world with the covers up to their eyes chanting this because manhole covers will destroy waymarking as we know it.

That said I also voted no. I was one of those that said it was overly broad but I don't think my exact quote was listed above.

Beyond prevalence and broadness, which I think is a potential problem with the category, my no vote was more about the perception of waymarking. Many already feel waymarking is a bit generic in its offerings. I think this feeds that idea even if it is a misconception. If you searched back far enough in the old forums you would likely find a post that I made concerning a category like this that is directly opposite of today's post. My preferences have changed as waymarking has evolved.

Now that all of that is said. I plan on submitting an example that is stunning and hopefully stellar when it comes open for creation of the waymarks. I did the same for the Bicycle Rack category that has been derided here and elsewhere. Folks in my area will not say (truthfully) that the submission that I provide is not among the best that the category will have to offer.

 I may not prefer the category ...... but it isn't my category. I have had my share of negative responses on categories I have crafted with the same care Jake39 crafted this one.

I respect the effort that it takes to bring any real category to peer review even when I don't give an affirmative nod to it. I reflect that respect even in the blind vote process.

Missed one longer quote: ---> -   All others are cut & paste with no sugar coatings.

Comments: Sorry - but I can't see this being very interesting - the Dan Heller samples were pretty boring in my opinion. - If I were to agree with you I wouldn't be here right now, as there would be no Cat.

Only on Waymarking can you get all that information without asking for it -

I have to say that I was completely surprised by how much FUN I had waymarking manhole covers on my vacation. Interesting covers popped up all over.

As an extra added bonus, I found more coins, when I had my eyes on the ground looking for manhole covers!

See,   "Every cloud has a silver lining."  

--- with added bonus   "I am in the money now!"  $.$$ 



or only ???

I missed this thread and this cat being up for approval. 

But strangely enough I was walking through Berlin while on holiday and I saw a manhole cover that was interesting.  I thought to myself "I wonder if there's a category for these? ... no, surely not" I didn't photograph it or take a waypoint for fear that my wife would assault me shouting "you're not possibly waymarking those are you, you big nerd!" ;)

 

Team Sieni:

I missed this thread and this cat being up for approval. 

But strangely enough I was walking through Berlin while on holiday and I saw a manhole cover that was interesting.  I thought to myself "I wonder if there's a category for these? ... no, surely not" I didn't photograph it or take a waypoint for fear that my wife would assault me shouting "you're not possibly waymarking those are you, you big nerd!" ;)

See, there's something I've learned.
If in doubt, get coordinates and photos.  To paraphrase myself (from another post), you can always remove information from your collection of coordinates and photos, but you can't manufacture information if you didn't collect it.

Here is an interesting "Personhole" cover that 'silverquill' posted from Bucheon Korea  with detail description. .



ELEMENTS OF THE DESIGN:
The outer red ring at the top reads - Bucheon City
The outer red ring at the bottom reads - Bucheon City Water Department
The inscription in blue reads: Caution, Sewer
The inscription in yellow reads: No Parking
The center design is the emblem of the city of Bucheon with Korea beneath it.
The inscription on either side of the center reads: Garden

Link to his Waymark

This link works better http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM4PNC