Groundspeak Portal

“I think with Waymarking the object has become more of marking then of visiting.”

saopaulo1 06-19-2008

 

This quote came from the post “A plea for Categories that have substance and value to the Visitor”

 

That quote and entire post was quite interesting to me. It went well beyond the topic of categories and defined that which I have pondered about Waymarking for some time. I wanted to broaden it a bit more so started a new post. 

 

I too have more waymarks posted than visited. At this time 4 posted 1 pending 1 visited which certainly isn’t anything to brag about.  The first three were posted in Feb. 2007.  I had come over from Geocaching, where I enjoy hiding more that finding, which parallels the above quote. But the reason I enjoyed hiding was the thought of kids, families and others having a good time with “the hunt”. However after noticing that very few waymarks if any were getting visits, I hung out in forums long enough to decide this was because of two factors. One was lack of data base. As more waymarks became posted more interest would be aroused and more would be visited. The second and closely related to the first was the fact that the site managers were focusing time, policies, resources and efforts strictly on building that data base. This seem like just plain good management. Build the data base and they will come. But with all that in mind I still lost interest.

 

A year and a half has past and things are about the same. It seems to me posting waymarks without visits is a bit like wrapping Christmas gifts that will never be opened. I do not say this in anyway to eliminate the joy some folks have in posting waymarks now as the situation stands. You are building a wonderful source of information, though in my opinion  sooner or later the site will have to turn the corner and focus on visits to stay healthy. Maybe there is a specific goal in mind as to data base size before such things as pocket queries, route searches, GPX files and other visit friendly tools become part of the site. (If someone could direct me to a thread that encompasses a good explanation of related goals or addition of these tools it would be of great interest to me). Otherwise, logically, sooner or later as waymarks get more and more obscure and less useful in nature, the pool of site users will begin to shrink and possibly wither and die. This may take quite sometime but it seems inevitable.

I guess it all comes from your point of view and mindset.  When I go collect the information, research for information and submit my waymark, I have already received my satisfaction.  If someone visits and posts a log that is just a bonus and makes me happy.  If someone emails me and thanks me for posting the grave of their great great grandfather who fought in the American Revolution or emails me thanking me for posting a veterans plaque honoring them and they did not even know it existed, yes it makes me happy.   Do I wish the counters worked on how many people viewed my waymarks, yes... in fact I would like it to count those that came from waymarking/geocaching and those that came from outside separately.  Whether someone physically visits my waymark or lands on the waymarking page for it, I hope they were enriched by it.

Saying that Waymarking will die if waymarks are not visited is like saying Wikipedia will die without visits (they don't even have the possibility of a visit there).  

However, if you are worried about Waymarking's demise and also want to make me happy please go visit my 27 other Waymarks within 10 miles of your hometown (you have visited one) 

Duplicate... one of these days I will get his right 

Hey Bruce, I have visited another one many times I have a geocache in the same place. Ant and the Yellow Jacket. Maybe I should quit whinning about no visits and go log my own.

river_cat16:

Hey Bruce, I have visited another one many times I have a geocache in the same place. Ant and the Yellow Jacket. Maybe I should quit whinning about no visits and go log my own.

Yes I know you have a cache there.  I think 190 feet from my coordinates... You can actually get a couple waymarks there.

BTW I really enjoy the story behind Ant and the Yellow Jacket, now the question I have which side is Ant and which side is Yellow Jacket

Not to be a pessmist, but I dont know if visiting will ever be popular. To me it's not that exciting. Taking a photo in front of something isnt that cool. I wouldnt visit a museum just for the sake of visiting. I'd visit because I wanted to see what was inside.

For me it is about both visiting and creating. I do enjoy the creation process but like being able to post a visit just as much.



These numbers represent about 200 visits to other waymarker's waymarks and approximately 350 are waymark creation visits.

 I have enjoyed running across waymarks by accident, going and finding them intentionally because a spot caught my eye, and purposefully stopping by just to give the waymarker who created the listing a virtual pat on the back for the time they spent on the creation.

I enjoy the creation process for the same reasons Bruce does. I have had authorities in the fields where I have created categories contact me on several occasions to clarify particular points about certain waymarks or about the category itself. This interchange is immensely satisfying on a personal level as long as it is kept civil and in almost all cases it is.

 I enjoy visiting waymarks  for the thrill of seeing something others haven't seen, when it is a good one. Sometimes it is participating in an activity that not many others are involved in that intrigues me. Sometimes it is simply the "hey, hi I was here at your waymark and thought I would let you know I noticed it" satisfaction that spurs me to log a visit.

Overall I see visits on the rise for many of my waymarks that are out there and a general interest increase as well. It repeatedly amazes me when I do a google search how many times a waymark shows up on the first page of the search. I approved a waymark from a new user this week that signed up because he had found a waymark after doing research on a particular location. This waymarker posted a visit to the one that he found and them created a couple based on personal knowledge of those locations. More and more users like this will pop up over time.

 I'll never forget the time I was researching a location and had done a search. The first page looked like it might be of help so I clicked on it and it was a waymark I had created in a different category. There was no other information on the spot on the web so suddenly I had become the authority.
Because I lead the category for static locomotive displays I have had people contact me asking if I knew of locomotives for sale. Wonder if I could get a commission if I hooked someone up.

Anyhow back on topic.

Yes the database is still in the process of being created but I see a subtle shift and more and more visits all of the time.

saopaulo1:

Not to be a pessmist, but I dont know if visiting will ever be popular. To me it's not that exciting. Taking a photo in front of something isnt that cool. I wouldnt visit a museum just for the sake of visiting. I'd visit because I wanted to see what was inside.

Actually this is what I find odd and leads me to believe that more user friendly tools are needed to increase visits. About the time I became interested in geocaching was the same time they did away with virtual caches and created this site for them changing the name to waymarks. They were, and for the ones that were grandfathered in, are still very popular "find"  in geocaching, where those tools already exist.

river_cat16:

saopaulo1:

Not to be a pessmist, but I dont know if visiting will ever be popular. To me it's not that exciting. Taking a photo in front of something isnt that cool. I wouldnt visit a museum just for the sake of visiting. I'd visit because I wanted to see what was inside.

Actually this is what I find odd and leads me to believe that more user friendly tools are needed to increase visits. About the time I became interested in geocaching was the same time they did away with virtual caches and created this site for them changing the name to waymarks. They were, and for the ones that were grandfathered in, are still very popular "find"  in geocaching, where those tools already exist.

I think they're popular because they're a challenge. I've done some virtual that had no wowto them (other then you're there to answer a question) I think they're popular because they're easy (compared to a normal geocache) and they're different.

duplicate

If, and when, Waymarking stats are included with Geocaching stats you will see a LOT more visits from Geocachers.  I attended a Geocaching event recently where I was asked to explain Waymarking to the group.  I was the only one, as far as I know, that does Waymarking.  I only create Waymarks and rarely visit them.  I prefer Virtual Geocaching and Benchmarking.  

Thought I would add tonight’s situation to the mix here. I was having trouble getting into forums so due to Bruce’s good natured  hard time he gave me about making visits of my own I did a search. I just started reading them in order of distance, thinking I would go log a few tomorrow. After I had in my mind picked out a few easy ones, I was trying to remember what the requirements were to log each. Well it became obvious I would either have to write down the instructions for each category or print them. On the other hand had GPX files been available I could of done a pocket query and I would of put the closet marks in my GPS and palm pilot all in a few minutes and had all the info I needed to walk out the door and do any waymark with in 50 miles of here. 

 

saopaulo1 makes a valid point on why the virtual geocaches are visited. But with little or no difference between them and waymarks why are the waymarks unvisited?

 

And as Rose Red pointed out the stats (though many deny it) are so important to geocachers, why don’t they seem to carry the same weight here?

 

river_cat16:

Thought I would add tonight’s situation to the mix here. I was having trouble getting into forums so due to Bruce’s good natured  hard time he gave me about making visits of my own I did a search. I just started reading them in order of distance, thinking I would go log a few tomorrow. After I had in my mind picked out a few easy ones, I was trying to remember what the requirements were to log each. Well it became obvious I would either have to write down the instructions for each category or print them. On the other hand had GPX files been available I could of done a pocket query and I would of put the closet marks in my GPS and palm pilot all in a few minutes and had all the info I needed to walk out the door and do any waymark with in 50 miles of here. 

 

saopaulo1 makes a valid point on why the virtual geocaches are visited. But with little or no difference between them and waymarks why are the waymarks unvisited?

 

And as Rose Red pointed out the stats (though many deny it) are so important to geocachers, why don’t they seem to carry the same weight here?

 

River cat you can load the category descriptions with the requirements for submitting and logging into your palm.  Flipflopnick maintains a set of text files for this.  I don't have the direct link for them but WaywardWaymarking keeps a fairly recent copy of them. 

As for the coordinates of the you can download the loc files by page (25 waymarks).  My advice is to run the loc files through gpsbabel and convert them to gpx files before loading into gsak as it will put the category in the short description field.  

Not quite as easy as a pocket query but the categories only have to be updated periodically and for waymarks have hint and logs available when visiting is not really needed like they are when hunting caches.   It will be great when complete pocket query are available especially for Nuvi owners (see Garmin Nuvi - True Paperless Waymarking er Geocaching ) as then will be able to find them and see a description  and all as I am there.

Why are virtuals logged and waymarks not visited -  simple     

I would not ever expect waymarking stats to be included in geocaching stats, they may be listed with them like benchmark stats.  Different games and different rules. (And I want to keep the rules different)

I visit most waymarks in any area I visit.  Problem is, there are not a lot of them.  I ignore fast food places and most other commercial waymarks, but will visit most of the others.  I normally won't go very far out of my way to visit a waymark (unless its an unusual category), but I will go further out of my way than I will for a micro cache.

I keep hoping that Waymarking will become more and more popular and people will do more visits.  Most times, you don't even need a GPSr to find waymarks.  I rarely even look at mine, when I'm hunting down a waymark I want to visit. 

Once waymarking gets more popular, I hope people will be attracted to my hometown because of all the different categories I have been waymarking here.  A new waymarker could fill in a lot of the visited grid here.  And there's a lot more I want to get out and do.

saopaulo1:

Not to be a pessmist, but I dont know if visiting will ever be popular. To me it's not that exciting. Taking a photo in front of something isnt that cool. I wouldnt visit a museum just for the sake of visiting. I'd visit because I wanted to see what was inside.

And that's fine...
Let's say you go on a business trip to Fort Worth and you decide to use Waymarking.com to to see what museums are around that you might be able to visit before you leave.  And let's say you actually visit a couple.   Let's also say that one of them has closed for the evening.
Are you going to go back into Waymarking and log your visits?   Or just be lazy and let it go?

Here's another scenario.  Same business trip, but this time, without you having a chance to do any research, after work, a coworker hauls you off to a museum, then to a pub with a nice neon sign.  You get a few pictures, but you don't have your GPS (unlikely, right...say it's broken then).
When you get back to your room, do you look and see if those two things are already in the system so you can log visits?

[When I say, "you" in this message, I'm referring to the generic...not you personally, saopaolo1.]

0ccam:

saopaulo1:

Not to be a pessmist, but I dont know if visiting will ever be popular. To me it's not that exciting. Taking a photo in front of something isnt that cool. I wouldnt visit a museum just for the sake of visiting. I'd visit because I wanted to see what was inside.

And that's fine...
Let's say you go on a business trip to Fort Worth and you decide to use Waymarking.com to to see what museums are around that you might be able to visit before you leave.  And let's say you actually visit a couple.   Let's also say that one of them has closed for the evening.
Are you going to go back into Waymarking and log your visits?   Or just be lazy and let it go?

Here's another scenario.  Same business trip, but this time, without you having a chance to do any research, after work, a coworker hauls you off to a museum, then to a pub with a nice neon sign.  You get a few pictures, but you don't have your GPS (unlikely, right...say it's broken then).
When you get back to your room, do you look and see if those two things are already in the system so you can log visits?

[When I say, "you" in this message, I'm referring to the generic...not you personally, saopaolo1.]

If I'm there, of course I'd visit. I just wouldnt go out of my way to visit something just for the sake of visiting (I would though if it's a square I want and there's none that I know of to waymark)

The ironic thing is, Visitng is exactly what those who are calling for Virtuals to come back to gc.com want to do.  Posting a waymark is like hiding a virtual, posting a visit is like finding one.  People are perfectly willing to visit a museum just to log a Virtual, so why not for a waymark?

I don't know when visiting was added to the site, but I only found out about it in the last week when I started exploring.  I've seen comments in other threads suggesting that others also don't know about it.  So it may be a marketing issue as well.

As for needing all the requirements, the issue exists just as much for Virtuals.  At least here, there are blanket requirements for Categories.  It also appears that most simply require a photo, which I love -- browsing some galleries here is a big part of what has pulled me in.

This is an interesting aspect of Waymarking.   For me, the fun is in waymark creation.  I've learned a lot in the process.  While I do waymark franchises, etc. the real fun is in historical sites and other places where I learn something.  And, it is fun to share that with others.  Like some others have experienced, occasionally I'm contacted by someone with a personal interest in a waymark  - mural artists, for instance.  Since waymarks show up on Google searches a lot of waymark pages get visited and, in a way, become a source of information.  Yes, it would be nice to be able to track these visits.

Actually, it seems I've been receiving more visit logs to my waymarks lately  - some by other waymarkers, but some by geocachers or others.  They have various reasons for the visits and the logs, but it is fun reading them.

I've never seen the point in logging visits to my own waymarks, unless to add a personal note, and I only occasionally log a visit, and that is usually only because I visited in order to create a waymark someone else had already done.  But, I don't log virtual caches either.

I agree that there need to be better tools to facilitate visits and logging and tracking numbers.  Someday, someday Groundspeak  will make them available as .gpx files.  Then I can load them in with my caches and visits will be a lot easier!!

I think there is enough waymark creation to keep us all busy for quite awhile, though people are scraping the bottom of the barrel for new categories  - bike racks, man hole covers, bubblegum machines, or whatever mundane thing pops into their heads.

I am curious...for those of you who have lots of waymarks (hundreds? thousands?)...how many visits do you receive?  An average of 1/day, 1/week, 1/month?  I just hit 36 today, and other than 1 from last year, none of my waymarks are older than 2 months.  So maybe I'm not in a good position to judge, but I find it a little surprising that none of my waymarks have been visited by anyone but my wife and myself.  I guess I am less surprised now that I go back and see how recent my second waymark is.

pseudoprime:

I am curious...for those of you who have lots of waymarks (hundreds? thousands?)...how many visits do you receive?  An average of 1/day, 1/week, 1/month?  I just hit 36 today, and other than 1 from last year, none of my waymarks are older than 2 months.  So maybe I'm not in a good position to judge, but I find it a little surprising that none of my waymarks have been visited by anyone but my wife and myself.  I guess I am less surprised now that I go back and see how recent my second waymark is.

 

I dont get many visits. I think yours was the last one I got.

I typically get visits on most days lately.  Some days I get several, other days just one, and some days none.

Saopaulo1, I noticed you posted a bunch of waymarks in Santa Barbara recently, so I think you're going to see a few more from me in the next few days.  :-)  (Perhaps as soon as the site comes back up -- I ran out to do a few visits, but I don't remember who posted any of them.)

While I ran out to visit those waymarks, I came up with the following 5 reasons why visiting is better than posting.
1. It's easier.  You don't have to spend a bunch of time looking up information on when the sculpture was created, or the web site of the library...
2. It's deeper.  After your visit, the waymark page will have more than one perspective on it, possibly including pictures from different seasons, or as the site changes.
3. It connects you with someone else.  You get to see the site through the eyes of the person who posted the waymark.
4. It connects someone else with you.  The person who visits the waymark will (probably) be happy that someone else has enjoyed it.
5. It acts as a double-check.  While in San Diego recently, I found a couple of waymarks where the coordinates were off by about a mile.  I pointed that out in my log, so the owner apologized and corrected.

I just thought of a sixth...you don't have to wait for approval to post a visit.

Some of this is tongue-in-cheek, since I wouldn't have waymarks to visit if people hadn't posted them first.  There weren't any waymarks on the UCSB campus this morning, so I didn't have any choice between visiting and posting...if I wanted to waymark, I had to post.  But I just wanted to take the opportunity to advocate for visiting.

pseudoprime:

I am curious...for those of you who have lots of waymarks (hundreds? thousands?)...how many visits do you receive?  An average of 1/day, 1/week, 1/month?  I just hit 36 today, and other than 1 from last year, none of my waymarks are older than 2 months.  So maybe I'm not in a good position to judge, but I find it a little surprising that none of my waymarks have been visited by anyone but my wife and myself.  I guess I am less surprised now that I go back and see how recent my second waymark is.

I don't get many visits to most of my waymarks.  The ones that DO get visits are my Disneyland marks...

pseudoprime:

I came up with the following 5 reasons why visiting is better than posting.
1. It's easier.  You don't have to spend a bunch of time looking up information on when the sculpture was created, or the web site of the library...
2. It's deeper.  After your visit, the waymark page will have more than one perspective on it, possibly including pictures from different seasons, or as the site changes.
3. It connects you with someone else.  You get to see the site through the eyes of the person who posted the waymark.
4. It connects someone else with you.  The person who visits the waymark will (probably) be happy that someone else has enjoyed it.
5. It acts as a double-check.  While in San Diego recently, I found a couple of waymarks where the coordinates were off by about a mile.  I pointed that out in my log, so the owner apologized and corrected.

I just thought of a s