Groundspeak Portal

Hey all,

maybe you've seen these somewhere.

They're called Fireworks Trees. They're similar to those lights Palm Trees, and most likely sold at the same places. Fireworks Trees look a lot like a Sputnick with all the spikes. They're filled with LED lights and when they're one they go on and off in a pattern that emulates fireworks. They are really cool to see at night.

Think they'd make a cool category? Come join me with the Pyros here. http://www.waymarking.com/groups/details.aspx?f=1&guid=87b6836c-fc12-475d-a082-933281ac87cb

 

Team Farkle 7

Hey all,

I got this written up and putting it to peer review. Please vote in favor. Thanks.

How widespread are these?  Googling "Fireworks trees" brings up this thread and the proposed waymarking category as the first two hits.

Good question, I'm glad you asked, because, I don't know.

How many MCD's are there? Or water towers? Perhaps one day they'll all be waymarked, and we'll know. I can tell you I know where two are, and soapaulo1 found on in Brazil. Sounds global to me.

Try this site I found.

http://www.electricgardens.com/

I know of at least two more and I am pretty sure they are not the ones team farkle is speaking about.  I am always surprised how many more of something I see once it is a category.    (If it is a chain category I still don't notice them)

Duplicate

How permanent are they?

Once up, will it take a hurricane to bring it down? Can it be in and out depending on the whim of the owner?

I know of one off-hand that's not in front of a car dealership. It's in the outdoor portion of a nightclub. I'd rather be able to waymark their grand construction of a simulated pirate ship than a lighting fixture I can buy myself at Kmart.

Do we have a cat for landbound real-sized reconstruction or simulated wooden ships (partial or full)?

I don't think you'll have much luck purchasing one at Kmart. You would have to go to an industrial lighting company. And also have about 2 grand to blow, give or take, depending on how big around you want it. And, yes they're usually bolted down so's not to come tumbling down in a stiff breeze. So, I'd consider them pretty darn permanent. No guaranty as far as hurricanes go.

As far as how wide spread they are, again no idea really. But if I know of one in Michigan and Saopaulo knows of one in Brazil, I'd say it's safe to say the category would be global. If this one does pass peer review, and I know where two are (I actually know of four, but accidentally deleted the coords on one) and BruceS knows where two are (hopefully different two) and Saopaulo1 knows of one and haunthunter know of one, and we were to maymark all six, it would wind up being behind Ice Age Trails with seven waymarks, and tying Kissmobile Sightings, Maori Historic Sites, & Whitewater Rafting Trips as far as largest categories go. It would also outnumber North County Trail, Alaska Historic Markers, Anamorphous Street Art, Luftwaffe Radar Ruins, Shop24 Machines, and Norwegian Post Offices. I've excluded the most recent categories for obvious reasons.

Anyway, it'll no longer be up for voting in a matter of hours. I hope it passes, I think regardless of where they are or how many there are it could be a fun category. Remember fun is why we're supposedly doing this and we shouldn't have to work so hard at having fun.

Oh, cool. I didn't know they were that fixed. I abstained because I wasn't sure... I'll go change my vote to yes.

I'm still confused about the permanence.  To quote the above-mentioned sales site:

THEY CAN PROVIDE AN "EXPLOSIVE" IMPACT TO YOUR BUSINESS,
FUNDRAISING EVENT, FESTIVAL OR SPORTING EVENT

That makes them sound temporary.

The two I have seen (one in Missouri and one in Texas) seem to be "permanent"     The one in Texas was mounted on the roof of the building.  The one in Missouri looked possibly less "permanent" as it was a post in the ground however has been there for at least 2 years.

I just came across one of these 2 days ago in the small Village of Brewerton, New York. It is located next to an ice cream stand. When my daughter spotted it, it was still daylight and the lights were not yet turned on. I took some pictures and we continued on to do some waymarking a couple of miles down the road. We took our time as we wanted to pass by it again after dark, hoping it was lit up. It was, and the action of the lights certainly do look like fireworks going off quite convincingly. I have both day and night pics, although a couple of the night pics came out fuzzy. Some pictures of it can be seen in the gallery here: http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM2ZVP

Hey all,

I have to admit, I was a bit surprised to see this one fail. It's amazing how many people had negative things to say. What sucks is, it would be great to get folks reading about an upcoming category in the forums, but we all know how slow things get when there are too many people on the forums. So, the first they know about it (the category) is when it goes up for review. Declining a category is one thing, but some of the negative comments were totally unneccessary. You may not think that a category is well thought out or whatever, but that is no reason to call another person's idea stupid. Ah, yes, there's nothing like the safety of our own homes in front of our own computers. Yeah...

Many had an issue with prevalence.

Well, let's see. I have found these in Flint, MI., Miami, OK., St. Robert, MO., and two others at a fireworks store on the Illinois/Indiana state line. All of which were permanently installed. Both BruceS and ptcrazy say they have spotted two each. Thanks you guys for your support, BTW. Also saopaulo1 found one in Brazil. So that's a total of eleven and we aren't even trying to find them, yet. Not an impressive number you say? Well the next time you're on Waymarking, click on largest categories and go to the last page. Disregard the newer categories for their lack of time for posting and check out the numbers on the categories that have been up for some time.

Wait a minute, it just accord to me. When did it become about the numbers???

Global, was another issue folks had a problem with. Well, so far just four people know of them and we cover two continents. Imagine if these were a category and you just had to fill your grid, then who knows where they might be found...

One last thing. I personally have only declined one category. I don't care were you pee in the woods. 

team farkle 7:

One last thing. I personally have only declined one category. I don't care were you pee in the woods. 

At one time, I approved all cat's, thinking even if it wasn't something I knew well, I gave the cat proposer the benefit of the doubt.

I have since flip-flopped. After getting duped into voting for a category that I wouldn't have by ambigous wording, if the cat isn't completely clear to me, I err on the side of caution.

I'm tired of cats where they want only portraits showing the left profile of a left handed person painted by a left handed artist during a full moon.

On the other end of the spectrum

I'm also tired of cat's that are magnets for cross posting. I was so disappointed to see a new cat go up that looked like a new and unique twist on the old cat's, only to see it fill up with the exact same old cross posted pictures as the old cat. New and unique turned to dull and boring real fast.

 

 

team farkle 7:

I have to admit, I was a bit surprised to see this one fail. It's amazing how many people had negative things to say. What sucks is, it would be great to get folks reading about an upcoming category in the forums, but we all know how slow things get when there are too many people on the forums. So, the first they know about it (the category) is when it goes up for review.

My doubts were answered by this thread and I changed my vote as a result! My vote was an Abstain so it wouldn't have counted against the cat, but still, asking a question and receiving an answer did a lot to change my mind on whether I wanted the cat to be approved.

Declining a category is one thing, but some of the negative comments were totally unneccessary. You may not think that a category is well thought out or whatever, but that is no reason to call another person's idea stupid. Ah, yes, there's nothing like the safety of our own homes in front of our own computers. Yeah...

Yep. A lot of people are like that on the internet. You have to wonder what kind of life they have to take out their aggravations so nastily on a bunch of strangers. If it weren't for your cat being declined, I'd tell ya to laugh off people who insult without provocation. I'm sorry it got declined. You could start over and clearly outline how global and permanent they are. They're obviously more global than the cats for historical markers. Hopefully, people will read the new cat description (which is another problem with some waymarkers at Peer Review) and learn about the subject of the category.

Try not to be too discouraged. Some of us got it. You just have to get that same information out there for everyone else. ;)

- Elle

I hear you on that, I try not to create anything ambiguous. Getting a category through seems tough enough, at least this year. Last year there were a lot of good ones.  I strive to create categories everyone can participate in (Okay, Lustron Homes aren't exactly global, but that's not my fault they were run out of business).

Cross-posting doesn't really bother me as long as the write up fits the category. Remember the theory behind cross-posting is to enlighten others about something they might not have considered before. If something shows up in a category they like and it winds up in another they may give the other more thought.

If you're trying to say some people aren't reading the long description before casting their vote, then I would have to agree.

So once more, just in case this thread is being read by more than just a handfull of people, since I had found one and then Saopaulo1 found one in Brazil, I figured well there's your global, and as far as prevelance goes:

1) check out the categories by largest and go to the last page.

We already know of more Fireworks trees than there are waymarks posted in the following categories; Shop24 Machines, Luftwaffe Radar Ruins, Anamorphous Street Art, Alaska Historic Markers, North Country Trail, Maori Historic Sites, Ice Age Trail, Vasco da Gama, Shot Towers, Old World Originals, New Zealand Historic Places, Lighthouse Bed & Breakfasts, Antarctic Points of Interest, Wee Folk Fairy Doors, The World of Carl Linnaeus and His Apostles, Saskatchewan Historical Markers, Pikachu Sightings, Outdoor Wind Harps, Millennium Trees, Metal Detecting, International Space Station Sightings, and Bungee Jump Sites.

Not to say there aren't others that haven't been found, but as of right now there aren't a lot of waymarks in these categories. Also, I don't wish anyone to think I'm picking on these categories. I haven't anything against them, I'm just trying to present the facts here. I didn't bother listing any of the newer categories for obvious reasons, give 'em a chance, I'm sure many of them will prove to be quite popular. The one other category I haven't mentioned up to now is Norwegian Post Offices. With a little luck, anyone of us stand a chance at being first to find. I personally do not forsee a trip to Norway in the near future, so it's unlikely I'll be getting that square on my grid.

2) Unique and prevalent? Exactly how does this work? Apparently there is a fine balance involved I wasn't aware of. I mean really...

Well, I'll be putting up for vote again soon, hopefully folks will read the full description before deciding.

Why oh why does the visit log require a GPSr picture?  This will end up one of the categories where you go out of your way to take neat pictures of a waymark, then you get home to realize you have a picture of yourself w/o the GPSr, so it doesn't count.  Also, if your GPSr and camera are in the same device, you're out of luck.

Did I put that in there? I usually just leave it as the standard requirements. I'm also not a stickler, because I'd rather folks had fun with the minimum amount of hoops to jump through. Ask anyone else they'll be glad to tell you I'm more likely to cut corners and push the envelope myself. So really I don't care as far as the GPS is concerned. I do like to see people in the shots, it proves you were there and it shows you're having fun.

Also, you can do what I do and just take a picture of your gps in your hand in front of a solid color and then superimpose it over your shot of the item found. Works for all categories too!

This is a case where my suggestion for "notes for review" would come into play. 
See http://portal.groundspeak.com/forums/thread/11880.aspx

Just as you can add notes to the reviewer on a submitted waymark, I think it would be good to be able to do the same with cats - explaining exactly why it would be a good cat and should be allowed.  The counter argument to that is that a cat should "sell itself" and should stand alone on its own description.  That's a good riposte, but often this could end up with a cluttererd description just to get the thing through review.  I suppose you could always just edit the sales pitch bits out afterwards.

PS I dislike the "picture of you & your GPS" even "picture of you" rule on photos too!  grrr.  But that's another story.

My wife thought the items were 'beautiful'... but we've established already that she has poor taste (look what she married after all)

I voted yes but without reading this thread I also indicate that the "GPS in photo" thing is SOOOO 2006

 

BQ

team farkle 7:

1) check out the categories by largest and go to the last page.

We already know of more Fireworks trees than there are waymarks posted in the following categories; Shop24 Machines, Luftwaffe Radar Ruins, Anamorphous Street Art, Alaska Historic Markers, North Country Trail, Maori Historic Sites, Ice Age Trail, Vasco da Gama, Shot Towers, Old World Originals, New Zealand Historic Places, Lighthouse Bed & Breakfasts, Antarctic Points of Interest, Wee Folk Fairy Doors, The World of Carl Linnaeus and His Apostles, Saskatchewan Historical Markers, Pikachu Sightings, Outdoor Wind Harps, Millennium Trees, Metal Detecting, International Space Station Sightings, and Bungee Jump Sites.

Not to say there aren't others that haven't been found, but as of right now there aren't a lot of waymarks in these categories. Also, I don't wish anyone to think I'm picking on these categories. I haven't anything against them, I'm just trying to present the facts here. I didn't bother listing any of the newer categories for obvious reasons, give 'em a chance, I'm sure many of them will prove to be quite popular. The one other category I haven't mentioned up to now is Norwegian Post Offices. With a little luck, anyone of us stand a chance at being first to find. I personally do not forsee a trip to Norway in the near future, so it's unlikely I'll be getting that square on my grid.

I think you're arguing apples and oranges here.  Just because a category doesn't have a lot of waymarks in it, doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential for many waymarks.  (Certainly the International Space Station Sightings is specifically designed that anyone that wants one and is willing to jump through the hoops to get one can have one.)

Also, just because a category has previously been approved that is not prevalent enough, doesn't mean we should repeat the same mistake.  "Let's see, we allowed a poor category in - let's compound our error by adding another one?"  Doesn't make sense to me.

According to your long description, there are 10 known firework trees.  This is too few to make a decent category.

steveherrick:

I think you're arguing apples and oranges here.  Just because a category doesn't have a lot of waymarks in it, doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential for many waymarks.  (Certainly the International Space Station Sightings is specifically designed that anyone that wants one and is willing to jump through the hoops to get one can have one.)

Also, just because a category has previously been approved that is not prevalent enough, doesn't mean we should repeat the same mistake.  "Let's see, we allowed a poor category in - let's compound our error by adding another one?"  Doesn't make sense to me.

According to your long description, there are 10 known firework trees.  This is too few to make a decent category.

Sorry to disagree. More like bananas. As you say, just because a category doesn't have a lot of waymarks in it, doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential for many waymarks.

That was exactly my point. A handful of people know of 10 of these things. How many more might be found if others are looking. Would you yourself had known that what you had found at the Factory Tile was in fact a Rotosphere if someone else hadn't informed you? By the way the Rotosphere qualifies for both the Googie and Dixie Highway categories.

If it weren't for the fact that there are only 16 Rotospheres known to exist, I'd have tried making them a separate category.

Lastly, what is the big deal equating prevalence with quality? At what point does prevalence start to take from unique? If I could find out how many people are involved with Waymarking worldwide, I could use that number as criteria in future category developement, so I can be sure that everybody gets a piece of the pie.

Anyway, the category was sent to peer review again, Voting ended on the 4th, and we're still awaiting results.

team farkle 7:

If I could find out how many people are involved with Waymarking worldwide, I could use that number as criteria in future category developement, so I can be sure that everybody gets a piece of the pie.

I know you were being facetious but it's really poking at the underlying problem that waymarking has with posts v. visits. If there's only 16 of something in the world, waymarkers should understand that their visits contribute to the overall quality of that posted waymark. It's not all about posting. Visits create experience.

- Elle