Groundspeak Portal

I'm getting a group together for a Dutch Brothers Coffee Locations category. I need at least one more premium  member in the group in order to get the category lauched. Anyone inteested?

Stargatekatie

Where are all their locations? Can I find one here in Florida?

Redneck Parrotheads:

Where are all their locations? Can I find one here in Florida?

The website shows 140 locations in 6 West Coast US states.  Mostly Oregon I think.

Guess you and I are both out of luck.

Hey stargatekatie,

Good to see you in the forum. I have enjoyed looking at your waymarks in the area. I hope to visit a few more as the opportunity presents itself.

I was nursing a White Mocha from Dutch Brothers this morning on the way to work. Good stuff!

For those out of the area this coffee stand is a bit of a phenomenon here and it would be similar to the Starbucks and Tim Horton's categories.

There is one drawback that would likely hamper this from becoming a category. It is not international or global in scope.

Regional categories have not fared well in peer review and I fear that if you were to proceed with the proposition it will probably not pass review. I would hate to have you disappointed  with a rough review of the category but a rough review is what I foresee with this category.

Is there a category for regional or local coffee stands or kiosks? That may be the better way to approach the category to make it broader in appeal.

Thanks. Waymarking is easier than caching for someone with a bad knee. I can't play mountain goat like I did when I was younger.

There are categories for Frank Lloyd Wright houses/buildings and there aren't that many of those around; Civil War Battlefields are not everywhere; Victorian Phone boxes are few and far between. There is also a category for independent coffee places. Dutch Brothers is a chain.

But all this is beside the point. I'm just looking for more people for the group. If the category gets passed the peer review is another matter.

There are already categories for Starbucks and Independent Coffee Houses and I don't think the WMing community is ready to open the commercial category to regional chains (based on other forum topics). The regional chains are tough to WM. I almost waymarked one coffee shop that I thought was independent (Moxie Java), only to go to their website to find out it was a nationwide chain. This was just the first store in SoCal. 

Maybe there is a way to create a category that will tie a lot of these indie's, regional & national chains together without being specific to a certain brand.  Maybe they roast their own beans on site (wouldn't limit to just coffee shops, maybe specialty grocery stores do it), maybe their beans are from organic growers/fair trade/etc., maybe they make their own chocolate for the mochas, maybe they serve the drinks in real mugs, or perhaps its a place where they have open mic nights for poetry. If you think globally, you might come up with a category that works on a few different levels. You can still waymark your favorite local chain, but then others around the world can also participate.

Here's some more ideas now that I've been to their website: Drive Thru Only Coffee Kiosks, Drive Thru Coffee Locations (would include SBUX), or something similar to the Best Burgers in Town category.

stargatekatie:

Thanks. Waymarking is easier than caching for someone with a bad knee. I can't play mountain goat like I did when I was younger.

There are categories for Frank Lloyd Wright houses/buildings and there aren't that many of those around; Civil War Battlefields are not everywhere; Victorian Phone boxes are few and far between. There is also a category for independent coffee places. Dutch Brothers is a chain.

But all this is beside the point. I'm just looking for more people for the group. If the category gets passed the peer review is another matter.

You will find that there hundreds of Frank Lloyd  Wright building are across the country is several different states and a few internationally.  There is not a category for Civil War Battlefields, the Civil War Discovery Trail has over 600 locations in 32 states on the national list and hundreds more which are on state recognized lists.  Victorian phone boxes are found in many locations and in places people would not expect, I have waymarked 2, one in Utah and one in Texas, not really where they would be expected.   

As has been stated before regional chains do not fare well especially ones with relatively few location (just over 100) and over half are in one state.

I would expand it to cover all drive through only coffee kiosks.

saopaulo1:

I would expand it to cover all drive through only coffee kiosks.

Ooo! I know one of 'em!

Yes, the drive through coffee kiosk idea might fly if written well. Based on past category proposals that have failed If it wasn't expanded in this manner it just wouldn't pass peer review.  All that would do is frustrate the leader of the proposed group and its participants. 

stargatekatie:

But all this is beside the point. I'm just looking for more people for the group. If the category gets passed the peer review is another matter.

The forum can sometimes appear discouraging to new ideas, but when it comes to chain categories, the forum is an essential tool for crafting a successful category. Whether the category passes Peer Review is not "another matter", it is one of two most important matters that matter. The other being that the category is functional. The forum can assist on both matters.

Sometimes this means expanding your baby to include more.

Peer Review has a big thumb that can squash a category flat and it's not always consistent. The anonymous Peer Review cares very little about precedents and existing categories. You can't win an argument against Peer Review. The forum can help you clue in to the Peer Review trends and sculpt your category.

Good luck to you.

My mistake. I did not read those categories carefully enough.

It was Shadow101 who suggested that I come here to look for people to join my group. I am learning far more than I expected.

Perhaps a category for regoinal coffee chains and their locations. The waymark would include the actual location you discovered, info about the chain and what states they are in. This would allow people to include chains that are only in New England, for example and Dutch Brothers, who are mostly in the pacific Nortwest (and growing). How does that sound?

I still like my group name though.

stargatekatie:

It was Shadow101 who suggested that I come here to look for people to join my group. I am learning far more than I expected.

Perhaps a category for regoinal coffee chains and their locations. The waymark would include the actual location you discovered, info about the chain and what states they are in. This would allow people to include chains that are only in New England, for example and Dutch Brothers, who are mostly in the pacific Nortwest (and growing). How does that sound?

I still like my group name though.

I like the group name, too! There's no reason to change that.

And I think you're on the right path by including all regional coffee chains. :)

I would certainly support a "regional coffee chains" initiative..... I know of a few around these parts that haven't been bulldozed by Tim Horton's/Starbucks yet. 

northernpenguin:

I would certainly support a "regional coffee chains" initiative..... I know of a few around these parts that haven't been bulldozed by Tim Horton's/Starbucks yet. 

Is it Coffee Culture by any chance? There are a couple now in Buffalo.

We have a few other local chains in town that I wouldn't consider independent. This seems like a perfect category for them.

stargatekatie:

It was Shadow101 who suggested that I come here to look for people to join my group. I am learning far more than I expected.

Perhaps a category for regoinal coffee chains and their locations. The waymark would include the actual location you discovered, info about the chain and what states they are in. This would allow people to include chains that are only in New England, for example and Dutch Brothers, who are mostly in the pacific Nortwest (and growing). How does that sound?

I still like my group name though.

I am very glad to see another user from my region in the forums. I think you are on the right track. I wouldn't leave out the independent kiosks in the category you are creating.

Here is my reasoning. As a category officer when reviewing submissions from The Sticks Oklahoma how do you confirm it is a chain.
If it is a stand alone drive through kiosk it will be easier to say "Yep that's one" and approve it than try to decipher if the thing is a chain or not. If you decide to limit it to chain kiosks you will need to determine what is a chain. Does the two locations of the same named coffee stand in The Sticks qualify? Does the company have to have 15 location or 20? How do you have the waymarker determine or prove it is a chain? etc.

If you allowed the entire drive through spectrum you make the officers,  and your, job easier. 

A variable to identify if the kiosk was part of a chain would work to identify the chains or independent locations.

Every hear of  Bad Ass Coffee? We have a kiosk here in Springfield. I thought they were independent until today when I Googled them to use as an example. They have locations all across the country and in Japan, Korea, and the Virgin Islands. Yet I thought they were an independent location. To make matters more confusing they historically have only had walk in locations but have begun to expand in the kiosk business. Are these kiosks to be included? If not you will need to clearly define what is accptable and what is not.

I am not wanting to discourage you in any way just get your thought processes moving for the category.

Some suggestions for getting your group going. Limit your officers at the onset to the minimum amount of three and add additional officers after the first stepof getting a category going. If you have to many officers to start it can be difficlut to get everyone to do the initial group vote in a timely fashion to even start the category.  Try to get one officer who has been around a bit and has worked on a category or two. They will be able to give you insights into the process if you have questions to ask. Be sure to have the category well written before the group vote to create the category. Once teh cateogry is created you will not be able to edit any changes until after peer review. If it isn't ready the peer review process can be a trying time.

Wayward Waymarking has a helpful category creation guide that has helped many create a successful category.

For the most part I do not prefer the commercial categories but will be willing to offer assistence in the creation process if you would like me to join up with the group send me an invite to join and we can work together to create a category

The only concern I have with "Drive Up Kiosks" for Coffee, is that, frankly every drive-thru kiosk only location for several hundred kilometers around here seem to be.... Tim Horton's. You don't necessarily want to get 400 cross postings from there - that will drown out the uniqueness of the category in my eyes.

What if the Drive Up Kiosk has a counter, but no tables? One can walk up to it but most customers will be driving.

An interesting point as well that needs to be mentioned when pondering a "Regional Chains". What defines a region? I know several coffee chains around here that are effectively nation-wide (but not in the more remote locations).... also if the location has 10,000 locations - but they are all in one Province/State (unlikely, extreme example) ... does that make it Regional?

The Bean Team makes some extremely valuable points based on the experience of a category owner/officer's point of view.  You want to make your category self-supporting down the line when 5 years from now you might be gone and a new crew of officers is in charge of your category.

I think "drive thru only" is key here and what makes these tiny little Fotomat kiosks unique.  (Hmm, Did I just suggest a Remembering Fotomat category?) Option 1: The category could include ANYTHING that is drive thru only (i.e. milk, hot dog, dry cleaning, wedding chapel) without any type of walk up window. I think this type of category would fare well and be quite interesting. Option 2: Or it could be drive through only coffee, without any type of walk up window. I believe this would then include Dutch Bros in the PacNW, Buzz Muzz in Australia, Bear Creek in the middle of the US, etc. but eliminate a vast majority of Tim Hortons, KrispyKreme, and SBUX.

I am usually supportive of commercial categories, but creating something for regional chains would be paving the way for regional burger chains, regional fish tacos, regional hardware stores, etc.  Not that its a bad thing, but the category would have to be written extremely well and set a high standard. As well as adressing The Bean Team's points above.

We support the independents and the national, we should also be equally supportive of the regional.

To do that, we need some definitions of each of the three. I know my definitions, but I'd be interesting in first seeing what other people say.

So, let's play fill in the blanks:

National:

Regional:

Independent:

BQ

the blue quasar:

We support the independents and the national, we should also be equally supportive of the regional. To do that, we need some definitions of each of the three. I know my definitions, but I'd be interesting in first seeing what other people say. So, let's play fill in the blanks: National: Regional: Independent: BQ

I don't think it's about the number of retailers/restaurants, or the location of retailers/restaurants as much as about this brand recognition. For me, these definitions go with brand recognition:

National:  Informed consumers across a single nation would recognize the name of the brand.  But it may not be recognizable in other countries.

Regional:  Informed consuers across a geographic region would recognize the name of the brand.  But those in different geographical regions would not. (unless they remembered it from vacationing or Waymarking!)  Here's where "geographic region" needs to be defined, and I think this would be where you'd draw the lines if you were handed a map of your country.  For the US, in my opinion, that'd be South East, North East, Midwest, South West, North West.

Independent:  Informed consumers in the immediate area of the retailer/restaurant would recognize the name, but those outside (usually the town) would not.

dopeyduck:

I think "drive thru only" is key here and what makes these tiny little Fotomat kiosks unique.  (Hmm, Did I just suggest a Remembering Fotomat category?) Option 1: The category could include ANYTHING that is drive thru only (i.e. milk, hot dog, dry cleaning, wedding chapel) without any type of walk up window. I think this type of category would fare well and be quite interesting. Option 2: Or it could be drive through only coffee, without any type of walk up window. I believe this would then include Dutch Bros in the PacNW, Buzz Muzz in Australia, Bear Creek in the middle of the US, etc. but eliminate a vast majority of Tim Hortons, KrispyKreme, and SBUX.

Option 2 seems most viable.  (Anyone noticing convenience stores with drive-up windows?)  

Glad to see this one under discussion.   It is one of those ideas that's been on my mental list for a long time.  These are not very prevalent in New England, though I found a really cute one in Maine, but are ubiquitous on the U.S. west coast.  I think including both chains and independents in the same category is problematic, but there are some who have done this.  As the Bean said, it can sometimes be hard to tell if a business is truly independent.  And, independents can open a second, then a third location and, voila, they franchise!  It's American capitalism at its best. 

Anyway,  I think this is an idea worth developing, by all means.  Just don't kill it with too many variables, encourage good photos (drive-up should not mean drive-by), and make it fun.  If you include chains, then a drop-down variable for the major ones (with an option for independent) would be helpful.  New options can be added to that as new chains are found.

TheBeanTeam:

Every hear of  Bad Ass Coffee? We have a kiosk here in Springfield. I thought they were independent until today when I Googled them to use as an example. They have locations all across the country and in Japan, Korea, and the Virgin Islands. Yet I thought they were an independent location. To make matters more confusing they historically have only had walk in locations but have begun to expand in the kiosk business. Are these kiosks to be included? If not you will need to clearly define what is accptable and what is not.

The web site does not give a location for their one Korean site, and it is not clear if it is open yet.  I think I remember seeing the Lahaina location, but didn't waymark it.

I've had the same experience here, and waymarked my first Holly's Coffee, then found out it was a fairly extensive national chain in Korea.  There are several others such as Tom N Toms and Angel-in-Us,  They compete with Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, and Krispy-Kreme (whose first Asian outlet is in Seoul).  No drive-thru kiosks, but walk-up food and drink is a way of life here, though.  I did the same thing with a bakery, then found out there are three major bakery chains here.

yramc600:

the blue quasar:

We support the independents and the national, we should also be equally supportive of the regional. To do that, we need some definitions of each of the three. I know my definitions, but I'd be interesting in first seeing what other people say. So, let's play fill in the blanks: National: Regional: Independent: BQ

I don't think it's about the number of retailers/restaurants, or the location of retailers/restaurants as much as about this brand recognition. For me, these definitions go with brand recognition:

National:  Informed consumers across a single nation would recognize the name of the brand.  But it may not be recognizable in other countries.

Regional:  Informed consuers across a geographic region would recognize the name of the brand.  But those in different geographical regions would not. (unless they remembered it from vacationing or Waymarking!)  Here's where "geographic region" needs to be defined, and I think this would be where you'd draw the lines if you were handed a map of your country.  For the US, in my opinion, that'd be South East, North East, Midwest, South West, North West.

Independent:  Informed consumers in the immediate area of the retailer/restaurant would recognize the name, but those outside (usually the town) would not.

Well, the commercial category opponents are going to hate this one!

But, I think regional chain categories might be feasible.  So, it would be something like Regional Pizza Chains, Regional Coffee Chains, etc.   I could also see a category like this becoming a huge mess.  Let's say Regional Restaurant Chains - All of the Bob Evans, all of the Shoney's, etc. in one category. . . .  well, you can see where that might go.  A big chain here in Korea are the Lotterias.  It's actually national, but I wouldn't create a separate category for them.  Seems more regional to me, in a sense.  We have several national pizza chains, and chicken places, too, among others.

Of course we have many of the big international chains here, too.