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I'm looking for some help in fleshing out a category idea that focuses on places where geeky history was made.

The place itself might not have a geeky component. For example, there is a Burger Master burger joint near here where the Microsofties used to have lunch. There's nothing inherently geeky about the burger joint, but the geeks who frequented the place make it qualify for listing in the category. It is part of geek history.

Examples from around here:

Bellevue Burger Master - Microsoft's first unofficial cafeteria
House where Amazon was founded
Bill Gates' Medina mansion (viewable by boat or plane)
MSFT courtyard with product plaques
UW dorm where Brad Fitzpatrick created LiveJournal
Early mobile phone at MOHAI
Location where Aldus was founded

What kind of pitfalls do you anticipate? Are the examples enough to define what the category is? Thanks in advance for your category creation expertise!

Fun idea.

You live in a Geek History Mecca.

Pitfalls:

Define Geek.

Does Thomas Edison count? Who exactly started the Geek Revolution and how do you define the start and exactly what to  include?

Graves of famous geeks OK or referred to the other Famous Graves cat?


"Are the examples enough to define what the category is?"

Probably not.

My experience is if isn't nailed down the limits will be pushed. Would teh phone museum in my hometown be acceptable? Just saying.

(Funny aside) This topic made me wonder if there are any geek cowboys...so I googled and found this.

Geek Cowboy who is  a Geocacher.  Potential officer?

opinionate:

I'm looking for some help in fleshing out a category idea that focuses on places where geeky history was made.

The place itself might not have a geeky component. For example, there is a Burger Master burger joint near here where the Microsofties used to have lunch. There's nothing inherently geeky about the burger joint, but the geeks who frequented the place make it qualify for listing in the category. It is part of geek history.

Examples from around here:

Bellevue Burger Master - Microsoft's first unofficial cafeteria
House where Amazon was founded
Bill Gates' Medina mansion (viewable by boat or plane)
MSFT courtyard with product plaques
UW dorm where Brad Fitzpatrick created LiveJournal
Early mobile phone at MOHAI
Location where Aldus was founded

What kind of pitfalls do you anticipate? Are the examples enough to define what the category is? Thanks in advance for your category creation expertise!

I would think the biggest pitfall is going to be defining geek.

The other issue will be something that sets the items in this category as unique enough to be in this separate cat, instead of in Engineering Landmarks and the various historical sites.

Other things that would fit into your new cat:
HP's Garage: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/garage/
The HP Garage is California Historic Landmark No. 976 — Birthplace of Silicon Valley.
I think it's on the NRHP, so it could be (is it already?) listed there.

There's an Historical Marker at TI in Dallas:
Demonstration of the First Working Integrated Circuit  (I don't think it's been waymarked yet).
Obviously that could go in your cat.....and into TxHMs.

Perhaps the fact that they'd be in so MANY diverse categories provides justification for your new category?

Or do we just need some kind of list/bookmark function (other than waytours?) to handle this kind of thing.

Defining geek... Yea I see what you mean. Maybe I should pick a point in computer tech history and decline submissions prior to that time. Like, say, punchcard computers. Or how about when the pocket protector was born? :)

A challenging undertaking to say the least!

Would this category mix buildings, plaques, monuments, etc.?  We've been told that categories cannot cross the boundaries of departments.

Documenting the history of something like this would certainly be a creative use of waymarking.  And, not being a real geeky person, I'm hard put to come up with examples.  I assume that what your are proposing is waymarking sites that have a significant connection to the development of computer technology, right?  I do think you are right in setting some starting point in this history, then, because one can trace the scientific developments back a long way.  How old is the binary system?  Is the abacus an ancient computing device?

To help define what qualifies for a waymark, I'd suggest developing some broad groupings, such as HQ of major computer companies that  produced ground breaking technology, academic locations, sites connected with computer pioneers (like Al Gore's house), if you can cross lines, then any plaque or monument that commerates an important geek event or person, then maybe a misc. group that would cover things like geek hangouts.   You could have variables for these broad groupings.

No matter how you define it, though, there will inherently be a large degree of subjectivity.   That can be a nightmare both for waymarkers and reviewers, but if you can distill it down and live with the subjectivity that is left, then it might be manageable.  So, examples are very, very useful - both examples of what IS acceptable and examples of what IS NOT acceptable.  And, for this category, the written description would be paramount.  The waymark most be well researched, showing the geek connection and providing the history that the category is all about.  That not only cuts down on the subjectivity, but enhances the value of each waymark and the category as a whole.

Finally, there is the challenge of making this global - including significant sites in other countries that are significant geek locations locally, that may not be of a world-wide significance.  Korea, for instance, has one of the hightest per capita use of computers in the world.  I don't know what the geek sites might be here, but a category like this would get me digging!

Oh, on definition, would you extend it to cover things other than the personal computer, such as the development of Computer Assisted Tomography (CAT scanning), "smart home" technology (you ought to see the display of this at our city hall here in Cheonan), GPS systems, etc.?

Despite the challenges, I think this is an idea worth pursuing.  Count me in as a geek challenged end user.

Yeah, I hate to shoot down an idea from the boss... but this sounds pretty subjective. Not only defining geek, but what constitutes a significant contribution to geekdom?

And I too have heard that category ideas that mix across the various 15 key departments are not accepted. Can you shoehorn this into the Technology section only? Focusing on the action instead of the building might work but I'm not sure how the cafeteria would apply, nor does it seem 'visitable'

I think you might have some significant hurdles to jump and massaging to do. A clear definition of the criteria for inclusion is key.

BQ

Personally, I think this can be done.

What sets a geek apart from a nerd, dweeb, or a dork?

They all have similar meanings. However, many choose to identify different connotations amongst these terms, but any differences are disputed.

The word geek is a slang term, noting individuals as "a peculiar or otherwise odd person, especially one who is perceived to be overly obsessed with one or more things including those of intellectuality, electronics, etc." 

In a 2007 interview on The Colbert Report, Richard Clarke said the difference between nerds and geeks is "geeks get it done."  (What was my first statement?)

Julie Smith defined a geek as "a bright young man turned inward, poorly socialized, who felt so little kinship with his own planet that he routinely traveled to the ones invented by his favorite authors, who thought of that secret, dreamy place his computer took him to as cyberspace—somewhere exciting, a place more real than his own life, a land he could conquer, not a drab teenager's room in his parents' house."

With this in mind, I suggest that we not limit ourselves just to computer technology, but technology in general. I see no problem with one category where one might find a waymark for the birthplace of Isaac Asimov, a biochemistry professor, as well as a sci-fi author, alongside the location where the cathode ray tube was invented, maybe even one for Gutenberg's printing press (just examples for the sake of argument).

How far back could we go? Well, the Binary Code can trace its roots as far back as the I Ching which originated around 2800 BCE, but I don't think we need to go that far back. The modern binary number system was fully documented sometime in the 17th century by Gottfried Leibniz. That's seems a little more doable.

One other thing, as examples, we would be total dorks if we left out Cal Tech & MIT.

opinionate:

Defining geek... Yea I see what you mean. Maybe I should pick a point in computer tech history and decline submissions prior to that time. Like, say, punchcard computers. Or how about when the pocket protector was born? :)

So you're saying that using a slide-rule is -not- geeky enough?   :)

You guys are scaring me a little now, but I see your point. The last thing I want is for both the waymarkers and my officers to be confused about what should be included.

I'm having second thoughts about setting a date in computer history and declining submissions prior to that date. It would be a shame, for instance, to disqualify the London Science Museum's difference engine.

Perhaps a better test would be, "Can you trace computer technology lineage back to this location directly?" The binary comparison is a good one. As is the abacus example. Although it should probably be the first abacus, or the origin of binary. Not just any location with a tenuous connection to this technology will do.

I'm not interested in any technology besides computing. Engineering, mathematics, physics etc. are all outside the scope of this category except where they directly relate to... the microchip I suppose. Computers, computing, and the internet are valid, along with anything gadgetry related. I'm starting to think the microchip is the core of the whole thing.

This originated from a local tech blog who wanted to document locations that someone would be interested in finding in the tech industry. Places like the garage where the first Apple was built fits in this category. A geek was initially a way to direct folks to the right type of place. It's like the definition of porn is that I know it when I see it.

If we wanted to have a specific timeline, I would expect that the locations relate to the Information Age, so perhaps a more appropriate name would be to use this time period? The common theme is that the historical locations are based on this timeline and not all technological advances since the dawn of time.

opinionate:

I'm not interested in any technology besides computing. Engineering, mathematics, physics etc. are all outside the scope of this category except where they directly relate to... the microchip I suppose. Computers, computing, and the internet are valid, along with anything gadgetry related. I'm starting to think the microchip is the core of the whole thing.

Wait.The microchip or the integrated circuit?  (*anxiously waits to see if the aforementioned TxHM gets disqualified, as the HP Garage is already disqualified, I think*)

jeremy:

This originated from a local tech blog who wanted to document locations that someone would be interested in finding in the tech industry. Places like the garage where the first Apple was built fits in this category. A geek was initially a way to direct folks to the right type of place. It's like the definition of porn is that I know it when I see it.

If we wanted to have a specific timeline, I would expect that the locations relate to the Information Age, so perhaps a more appropriate name would be to use this time period? The common theme is that the historical locations are based on this timeline and not all technological advances since the dawn of time.

Unintentionally I think you may have hit the nail of the problem on the head. It is exactly like the definition of porn, or art, that you know it when you see it. That is subjective and we are all very programmed to reject concepts based on subjective criteria. We've also seen the pitfalls of allowing subjective ideas in early categories. People become frustrated because it ends up feeling like they need to hit a moving target.

No one is dismissing the idea, in fact quite the opposite. But the fact remains that part of the purpose of bringing an idea to the Forums is to work through the issues that others might see. We see an item that we would rather help be successful in advance than see Nate and his officers receiving a bunch of negative comments as it goes through peer review.

Nate, like others, is doing the absolute best thing by asking for feedback. Together we can help make the concept stronger and more readily accepted as a community in a way that a small group cannot.

So, I like the idea as long as it fits cleanly into only one of the established 15 departments and clearly shows what qualifies for entry. It sounds like it would be a "Technology" category. How about "Breakthroughs of the Information Age"?

To qualify for this category your listing must identify a computer sciences location where a technological breakthrough was invented, produced or conceptualized. Please be sure to include supporting documentation including citations from publications, signs and plaques from the site and details about the item being showcased.

BQ

opinionate:

You guys are scaring me a little now,

CRAP! Just a little?

Here's the inspiration for the category. He chose Dot Com Tourist Spots which may even be better, though I do like Breakthroughs of the Information Age. Where Bill Gates used to eat burgers doesn't really fit in the category but I can live with that.

Geek is actually a very old word. It is a variant of geck, a term of Low German/Dutch origin that dates in English to 1511. It means a fool, simpleton, or dupe. Geck is even used by Shakespeare in Twelfth Night.
"Why haue you suffer'd me to be imprison'd. And made the most notorious gecke and gull That ere inuention plaid on?"

The geek spelling is an American variation, even though Shakespeare uses the spelling geeke in Cymbeline V.iv., but this is probably just a misspelling. Geek first appears (outside the single Shakespearean usage) in 1876 America. American usage adds the connotation of offensive or undesirable to the original foolish and stupid sense. The Carnival sideshow sense appears in 1928.

Not global :)
Not that I would care much - I don't have a problem with architecture styles or history markers limited to one continent. Wondering if local geek/computer history locations would apply?
First installations of URAL2 computers around Czechoslovakia?
Factories making VAX clones in Eastern Bloc?
First Slovak FidoNet node?

> Factories making VAX clones in Eastern Bloc?

Hey, I love the idea! And as far as the Eastern Block goes - we had one of the first computer networks in the world - long before Al Gore invented the internet. And as a young student at the East German Marine Academy, I was an integral part of it! In 1982, we got two desk-sized computers to work together (one at our school and one at a ship building institute five miles away) -with my bicycle, I carried punch-cards back and forth between the two.

Sounds crazy, but 16 years later, in my first job interview in America, this story got me a job as data base administrator :-)

I wouldn't try to define "Geek" and I don't think we have to. Let people decide for themselves. In the "Scenic Hikes" and "Scenic Lookouts" categories, we also don't have a definition of "scenic."

Bernd das Brot Team invented the Internet?

Sounds good to me.

Bernd das Brot Team:

> we had one of the first computer networks in the world - long before Al Gore invented the internet. And as a young student at the East German Marine Academy, I was an integral part of it! In 1982, we got two desk-sized computers to work together (one at our school and one at a ship building institute five miles away) -with my bicycle, I carried punch-cards back and forth between the two.

Just catching up on some threads and saw this story... All I can say is WOW, with an I'm impressed tone.

Very cool, thanks for sharing that.

BQ

the blue quasar:

Just catching up on some threads and saw this story... All I can say is WOW, with an I'm impressed tone. Very cool, thanks for sharing that. BQ

Bernd das Brot Team:

> ....In 1982, we got two desk-sized computers to work together (one at our school and one at a ship building institute five miles away) -with my bicycle, I carried punch-cards back and forth between the two.

Yes, the information super highway was first traveled by bike.

Great story.

TheBeanTeam:

the blue quasar:

Just catching up on some threads and saw this story... All I can say is WOW, with an I'm impressed tone. Very cool, thanks for sharing that. BQ

Bernd das Brot Team:

> ....In 1982, we got two desk-sized computers to work together (one at our school and one at a ship building institute five miles away) -with my bicycle, I carried punch-cards back and forth between the two.

Yes, the information super highway was first traveled by bike.

Great story.

It was also safe to hitchhike back then too...

Just noticed ENIAC in new WMs today :)

Great historic marker, haggaeus. Thanks for sharing that.

Back in 1995 (when Seymour Cray was still alive), I was lucky enough to be able to spend a couple of days doing some software consulting at the (then) headquarter campus of Cray Research in Eagan, Minnesota. On the second day, after lunch, one of the Cray employees that I had been working with took me down to see the large collection of operational Cray Supercomputers they kept running  in a special area in one of the buildings. There must have been about two dozen Cray Supercomputers in that room - from some of the really old models to one of the new ones.

Seeing that was just about The Coolest Thing Ever.

Cray Research is no longer Cray Research, and what they became is no longer in Eagan, Minnesota. But that location would make an excellent waymark

cache_test_dummies:

Cray Research is no longer Cray Research, and what they became is no longer in Eagan, Minnesota. But that location would make an excellent waymark

Especially with a little personal touch  like the one you could put on it.

Exactly!

And while my son and I were out waymarking, my wife and daughter could spend aaaaalll the time they wanted to at the Mall of America.