Groundspeak Portal

We're resurrecting an idea that was discussed over a year ago, to put together a category for flags of organizations.

This is inspired by the Municipal Flags category which I have come to enjoy.  The basic idea is to waymark flags that are not for a governmental/political entity, so no national, state/provinical, county, or municipal flags.  The flags must be official flags of a business, agency, institution, or other organization.  This means that they would bear an official logo or wording that identifies it with the organization.

The major issue is that there will usually be multiple examples of any given flag, and we don't want, say, a gazillion flags of the Golden Arches.  But, the same issue exists for the established Municipal Flags category where these flags fly in many locations throughout a city.  So, this category would have a restriction of allowing only ONE waymark of any given flag, regardless of other locations.  Some think this might be objectionable, but I don't see any other way to keep the category interesting and free from being inundated by the mundane and repetitive waymarks of the same flags.

When I formed a group for this, I saw that mcleod had formed a similar group in March of last year.  I've contacted mcleod who has assured me that it is okay to go ahead with this, and who is part of this new group.

I'd appreciate any suggestions before putting this up for peer review.

Flags of Organizations

I'm a little unclear on how you will ensure that duplicates are not created, apart from asking people to be thorough.

I agree that this would be interesting and apart from possible duplications, it would be a lot of fun.

Jake39 grabs an "Elmer the Safety Elephant" flag at a local school that oh just read it here

BQ, being the lazy guy... err... I mean, REALLY wants to own the Elmer Flag listing simply waits a few weeks and sends it in too hoping no one notices.

Why this concerns me is that it seems to be trying to tackle two issues at once. Instead of a specific target {flag} found at multiple locations (matching most categories now) or will there be some 'you gotta give your location by coordinates' aspect like the Photo Goals or U-Haul categories that are under Games?

Using your example of a McDonald's flag, lets say that you SilverQuill create the one for Seoul Korea (if there is one there). Obviously I'm not going there anytime soon, so how do I log it or the one down the street from me?

BQ

What if it was turned into a game, like the U-haul game. You waymark a flag and put it at the headquarter of the corporation. If you waymark a UN flag, it's location is in New York, but you can visit the one in  Geneva.

If this keeps up, we're putting the ALRs back in Urban Legends & Superstitions!

This is definitely a very interesting idea and as founder of the Municipal Flag category we want to be part of this. By the way, we do allow more than one location for city flags but discourage more than one log per waymarker per city. The category has been running successfully for two and a half years and I don't think we have more than three or four flags that have been logged at more than one location in the same city.

We are not sure about the restriction of only one log per "organization". We are trying to get as many categories as possible registered in our home town but all we have in town is The Golden Arch, Carl's Jr., Chevron and Travelodge. So, if someone beats us to it we wouldn't be able to register any of the flags in our hometown - doesn't sound fair.

Also, we think that "Organizations" must be defined better. Are we talking non-profit organizations (Boy Scouts, Greenpeace) or business (Ramada Inn, Shell Oil, General Motors)? And what about Sport Teams? This almost justifies three individual categories...

We definitely want to be part of it and want to get it off the ground, but it seems to need a little bit more discussion.

Count us in!

Bernd das Brot Team:

This is definitely a very interesting idea and as founder of the Municipal Flag category we want to be part of this. By the way, we do allow more than one location for city flags but discourage more than one log per waymarker per city. The category has been running successfully for two and a half years and I don't think we have more than three or four flags that have been logged at more than one location in the same city.

We are not sure about the restriction of only one log per "organization". We are trying to get as many categories as possible registered in our home town but all we have in town is The Golden Arch, Carl's Jr., Chevron and Travelodge. So, if someone beats us to it we wouldn't be able to register any of the flags in our hometown - doesn't sound fair.

Also, we think that "Organizations" must be defined better. Are we talking non-profit organizations (Boy Scouts, Greenpeace) or business (Ramada Inn, Shell Oil, General Motors)? And what about Sport Teams? This almost justifies three individual categories...

We definitely want to be part of it and want to get it off the ground, but it seems to need a little bit more discussion.

Count us in!

Okay, you're officer #!!

I'll worulk on a better defuinition.   I first thought of "corporate flags" but thought it ought to be more inclusive, so went with "organizations," which I thought would include non-profits - basically anything that wasn't a political entitity, and would even include things like governmental departments such as a park service, police or fire, etc.   Sports teams?  I don't know.  Maybe I'm not looking the right places, but I don't see these a lot.  Could it be a variable? 

I'm still in a quandary though about whether to allow multiple submissions of identical flags.  I think this was one of the sticking points when this was discussed previously.  I certainly understand your point, which has a lot of merit, but, on the other hand, I don't think having hundreds of identical McDonald's flags would make a very interesting category - or some other very common flags.  Maybe that wouldn't happen; I don't know.  I don't think any of us like arbitray restrictions, either.

Any other thoughts about this?  Is there a good solution?

silverquill:

I'm still in a quandary though about whether to allow multiple submissions of identical flags.  I think this was one of the sticking points when this was discussed previously.  I certainly understand your point, which has a lot of merit, but, on the other hand, I don't think having hundreds of identical McDonald's flags would make a very interesting category - or some other very common flags.  Maybe that wouldn't happen; I don't know.  I don't think any of us like arbitray restrictions, either.

Any other thoughts about this?  Is there a good solution?

I think you should investigate  saopaulo 1's idea. It is something to consider anyway.

saopaulo1:

What if it was turned into a game, like the U-haul game. You waymark a flag and put it at the headquarter of the corporation. If you waymark a UN flag, it's location is in New York, but you can visit the one in  Geneva.

This would place one McDonald's flag into the category. All other McDonald's flags would be recorded as visits with the coordinates added into the visit log.

Flags that are unique would still have a home as would the corporate ones that you seek to limit.

Anything to avoid 100 McBarf flags! Allowing every flag just once is the lesser evil. Only we will have to keep track of it and have to have a list of everything that is already there (preferably in alphabetical oder). And that list has to be updated constantly. I'm a sticker to detail and wouldn't mind doing it.

I like the idea of the game but I'd rather have that in addition to the "Flags..." not as the default feature. Two reasons:

1. How many of us will make it to a headquarter? (I am a manic waymarker, but even after three years I still haven't earned the "Corporate Headquarters" batch)

2. Puting a companies flag on the map is as far as I am willing to go for a free commercial. I bet you anything, after the obvious (McD, Carls Jr. and maybe three or four others) we will be swamped with 100 local real estate agents. At least where we live, Real Estate flags are a very common sight. I don't mind putting their flag on a popular website, but I wouldn't want to add their address to it without receiving provision :-)

I like the idea of everything that is not a political entity. Only now we'll have to go back to a remote area of Northern California because there is a hydro dam that proudly flies the flag of the California Department of Energy.

As far as Sport Teams go: Most professional teams have a flag of their team flying in front of their home stadium. It would give a second chance to everybody who missed logging a Professional Sports Venue in their home town.

Bernd das Brot Team:

1. How many of us will make it to a headquarter? (I am a manic waymarker, but even after three years I still haven't earned the "Corporate Headquarters" batch)

You wouldn't have to visit the headquarters. Like the U-Haul cat you create  a simple default location that the first submission is waymarked at. It gives the group a basis to start a spot for the Mcflags or whatever corp you want.

Consider these Corporate Flags and to stop picking on MCD's lets choose another whipping boy. Exxon. Ok We only want one right rather than every corner station that exists. We find out what the headquarters location is and place it there. Then all of the visits use the additional coordinates feature to visit the flag rather than create a new waymark for each location. It works as a game category and limits the amounts of corporate flags you have to deal with while providing a set guidline for the placement. It would help you with your list. Of course you could do like I did with the Zippy category and create a page somewhere that lists each flag and if it had been found or not. Then a link could be put into the long description as a single click resource. Example here

If you had a list that used a format like this and a link to that list was in the description somewhere it might be workable.

Waymarked by XYZ Waymarkers

Unique flags that are not corporate in nature (ie real estate, golf course etc.) would by nature be located at the spot they were found.

How would Federal and State agency work?

How would flags for organizations such as Boy Scout Troops, where they are different by designation but the same in design?

Trying to keep the discussion going because we really want this category to take shape

> How would Federal and State agency work?

I think it should be one each. I know there are California State Park Commision flags flying in many state parks, whoever gets the first one, wins.

> How would flags for organizations such as Boy Scout Troops, where they are different by designation but the same in design?

I don't see a difference to McDonalds flags that are different by designation (different stores) but the same in design.

Bernd das Brot Team:

> How would flags for organizations such as Boy Scout Troops, where they are different by designation but the same in design?

I don't see a difference to McDonalds flags that are different by designation (different stores) but the same in design.

I disagree here... each Boy Scout Troop, VFW Post etc have a distinct flag... at least it has a different number, city and state listed where as each McDonalds flag is the same no matter were you are.

> I disagree here... each Boy Scout Troop, VFW Post etc have a distinct flag... at least it has a different number, city and state listed where as each McDonalds flag is the same no matter were you are.

My bad! I agree, if the flags are different, they deserve different entries. Generally speaking, everything that hasn't been logged yet, should deserve its own entry. Flags of the World has a little collection of Boy Scout Flags, and they are all quite unique.

http://www.crwflags.com/FOTW/flags/us_bsa.html

Strangely enough, FOTW has no entried for Veterans of Foreign Wars and /or American Legion. But I just checked the picture galleries of about 200 American Legion waymarks. Most of them only had National Flags (US or Canadian) and a POW flag flying. Only seven out of 200 had an individual flag and they all looked somewhat different. So I don't think we have to worry about an inflation.

Lets not make the whole thing too complicated. Lets get started and see how it flies.

Sorry to have put this on the back burner during our trip.  We'll be in Pasdena one more day, then head back home Monday.

This issue of how to deal with duplicate flags seems to be the sticking point.  I do agree that similar flags that have something unique about it, such as a number, geographical location, etc. should have individual waymarks.    I think I saw a flag for a hotel chain that had the local city on it - which makes it unique even though other flags for that chain have the same logo and name.

I also think a distinction may need to be made between flags and banners.

Oh, the other issue is - how do we keep track of what has already been posted and what may be a duplicate?  I think it is inevitable that someone will eventually submit a duplicate.



Anyway, I'll work on the wording next week and have the officers give it another look before sending it on.  Thanks for your input.

> a distinction may need to be made between flags and banners.

I tried to find a clear cut definition, but couldn't. In my book, if it is more than twice as long as it is high, it is a banner, not a flag. Example: 6ft high and 9ft long (the most common 2:3 ratio) = flag. 10 ft high and 10 ft long (like the flag of Switzerland) = flag.  3 ft high and 7 ft long (exceeding the max 1:2 ratio) = banner.

> how do we keep track of what has already been posted and what may be a duplicate?

I'd volunteer to create a list and keep it up to date in the "additional information". I've been a professional pea counter all my life, this is going to be fun :-)

silverquill:

I also think a distinction may need to be made between flags and banners.

Require the flag/banner to be supported by two or more attachment points to a (near) vertical pole.
Oof, even this gets complex.  I know one when I see one.

Wait.  What about pennants?   :)

Just checking in: Where are we with this category? I really want this one going off the ground :-)