Groundspeak Portal

Yesterday I declined a waymark submission because upon review of all the photos submitted, I thought one of the photo requirements was missing.  Turns out that it wasn't, the part I was looking for was on a small section of a sign that included a lot of other information.  I admit that I missed it the first time, eventhough I DID look at the photo.  When I declined the waymark, my message to them merely said that I did not see the required photo of the required signage and to please let me know if there was something I was missing (this is not word for word, but close).  Here is the email response I recieved today from the individual:

 

"Considering I spent a morning in the pouring rain on my Saturday off taking as many photos of the (Waymark) as possible, I am not too pleased that you rejected my submission of the (Waymark), without obviously looking at ALL the photos! Which of course included the required sign! I have re-submitted the entry in the hope that more care will be taken this time with my submission and with any future submissions.. (XXXX) name omitted"

Am I wrong to think that the response could have been made a little more tactifully than this?  People make mistakes, I made one while reviewing this waymark.  This is a game and I don't appreciate being lambasted over something as small as this.

I too make mistakes like accepting a waymark that missed an item or two...I recieved a kind coaching note from the category leader.  I've missed an item or two and added them in after.  I have archived a waymark or two that I thought could have made the grade - but didn't.

I've never been too fussed because it is a game and is intended to be fun.

I find that if I have to be out in the rain and I am not really liking it a nice latte or hot chocolate with whipped cream takes the edge off.  Someone might have missed their coffee much like you missed a detail on a photo.  It's not worth getting fussed over.

IMHO - KE   

Some people get REALLY irritated when something gets declined.  Fortunately, most people realize that it's a game and don't get so uptight when something is declined.  As long as you make a good explanation on why it's declined (and it sounds like you did) they need to realize that reviewers are human and will make mistakes sometimes.  I would re-review the waymark, and then post in the notes a reminder that reviewers are human and make mistakes.

As I read the post I was thinking, "Sheesh!  If you are so miserable wait and do the waymark when it isn't raining!"  They should take Wildwoodke's suggestion and get something to drink - maybe something stronger than a latte'.

I think it depends on what kind of category it is. If it's some subjective category, it's be kinda annoyed. If it was something where I forget something, I'd call myself an idiot. What does piss me off is declining a waymark for something that isnt mentioned in the category.

One time I declined a submission which was a cross-listing that fit the requirements of a couple categories. At first I knew that the person simply copy and pasted the listing and submitted because it contained way too much information not related to our category.

I sent a note back that simply stated we didn't need this much info and could it be edited down to the details and current site info.

In return, I got an appropriately customized re-submission and a nice note thanking me for the tips.

I guess a lot depends on the mood of a person when they are sitting at their keyboard...

UncaBee

[rant]
I had one declined (Flt 93 Memorial)  because the reviewer (9/11 Memorials Group Category Managers) stated that the pics were not my own.  Talk about annoyed, how in the heck would they know if they were my original pictures or not?  I sent an email stating the fact that they were my pics that I took and waited for a response (this was submitted 10/21/2006) but never ever heard anything back, I just let it go but still think about it from time to time and it still pisses me off a bit.  I live here, worked the site from day one and go out there enough that I take my own pics and submitted them only to get declined. [/rant]

Sorry, I fall in the "hurts to be declined" category.

I seem to remember as an officer  being able to re-activate waymarks that had previously been declined.  So it seems the error could be corrected pretty easily.

Through a brief email discussion, this situation appears resolved.  All is well.

cmelton14:

Through a brief email discussion, this situation appears resolved.  All is well.

That's the best, if you can -- to hash it out and understand one another.

I review a lot of waymarks in different categories, and it is always hard to hit the Decline button, and I need a pretty good reason to do so.  I try to be lenient while still upholding the standards of the category.    If it is something that needs to be fixed, such as coordinates, a missing photo, or some such, I usually get a re-submission without comment or with a short explanation.  Occasionally, I run into someone who is argumentative, but that is rare.  My pet peeve is the person who re-submits without any changes and inisists that it be accepted.  If it is my error, most politely point it out. 

Oh, my "other" pet peeve are people who submit waymarks with no variables filled out, even though the information is fairly easily obtained, just because it is an optional field.  One soon learns who sends in waymarks that meet the bare minimum requirements, and those who submit truly high quality waymarks!

silverquill:

Oh, my "other" pet peeve are people who submit waymarks with no variables filled out, even though the information is fairly easily obtained, just because it is an optional field. 

Hear, Hear.!!! 

IMO, there was nothing in the submitter's reply that should have annoyed you.  The mistake was yours... apologise and correct it, and be more carefull next time.

silverquill:

it is always hard to hit the Decline button, and I need a pretty good reason to do so.  I try to be lenient while still upholding the standards of the category.   
Occasionally, I run into someone who is argumentative, but that is rare. 

but when one person has the subjective opinion of argumentativeness another might have the opinion of dedicated passion.

benjamin921:

[rant]
I had one declined (Flt 93 Memorial)  because the reviewer (9/11 Memorials Group Category Managers) stated that the pics were not my own.  Talk about annoyed, how in the heck would they know if they were my original pictures or not?  I sent an email stating the fact that they were my pics that I took and waited for a response (this was submitted 10/21/2006) but never ever heard anything back, I just let it go but still think about it from time to time and it still pisses me off a bit.  I live here, worked the site from day one and go out there enough that I take my own pics and submitted them only to get declined. [/rant]

Is there a way to know for sure if a photo is original?

I know there is plagarism prevention programs for the written word that teachers use.

I believe that digital photos get some sort of a tag that is unique depending on the camera, and a check digit of the bits and bytes in the digitization. It would be helpful to learn if such a thing exists, and how to use it. I know on Flickr I can view a tag with some info.

In one of the categories I am on, the photos looked way too good. We have some really great photographers here, but these looked like something out of National Geographic. I expressed that to another officer, and he was able to find the exact pictures using Google. I think that was just luck. I'd like..

1) A way to tell if a photo is a duplicate of something on the internet.

2) A polite way to ask if the photo is original, as we have some really good photographers here. I think on the one that was actually copied, before I knew it was actually copied, I complimented and asked how they got such a beautiful sunset shot and asked if they had photoshopped it.

but is the complete dataset from the uploaded file intact on the site? there was mention of using the time/date stamp of your pic in a 'file name' variable on the gallery, but what about all the pics already uploaded?

i know that if my aunt takes a pic and emails it to me. i save it. her file has less data than mine, but thet might be a inferior camera brand/model issue.

in several instances (photo then and now) i have used an internet pic, but i them put the website i got it from in the description AND in both the pic caption and description.

maybe that could be one of the boxes on the pic upload screen: this pic is from.

along these lines, i have had several visit logs that i could swear they just photoshopped my pic.

this is just another reason to take multiple pics. the same car isnt always parked in front of the historic courthouse is it? [then that should be a permanant car display].

so then, maybe so solve lots of issues, the site should upload and display all file info....

date-time-make/model

edit:
in the 'old days' of entering a photo contest, once you made it through so many 'rounds' the asked you to provide your negative as proof that it is indeed a pic you took.

i havent entered any contests since then, but other than providing your file--including the above info, date created, date modified and lots of other data goodies--how do you prove its yours?

jimbofish:

IMO, there was nothing in the submitter's reply that should have annoyed you.  The mistake was yours... apologise and correct it, and be more carefull next time.

I disagree. If cmelton14 was polite in his rejection, even if he was mistaken, the submitter had no need to get his hackels up. He should have simplely re-submitted stating where to find the requested information that was there the first time.

I have one awaiting approval (or denial) that was rejected in Fishing Holes because "normally fishing isn't allowed below dams". My picture clearly shows people fishing there and I asked for it to be reconsidered. It upset me that it was rejected but I see no need assualting the reviewer as he was polite in doing his job. And since this is a game, we have to remember that reviewing is a job so that the rest of us can play.

Fatcat

fatcat161:

 And since this is a game, we have to remember that reviewing is a job so that the rest of us can play.

Fatcat

But the game is no fun when the rules keep changing or - as mentioned above - unwritten.

I had a (rare for me) waymark denied because it didn't meet the unwritten minimum threshold.  I resubmitted asking for a vote based on presidence that other approved waymarks in that category were below that threshold, too.  The group denied my appeal all stating I did not meet the minimum threshold.  Fine, as long as they are consistent.

Nope.

A few months later, I notice the exact same waymark was approved.  It is not as if the group didn't know what the thresholds were, because they VOTED ON IT!!!

so, im not the only one?

cldisme:

A few months later, I notice the exact same waymark was approved. 

I had a muffler man denied because it "wasn't a muffler man". Last weekend I was in the neighborhood and saw that it had been approved when someone else submitted it.

Things like that encourage me to argue my case a little more.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't set up a reminder to resubmit a month later on my denied wayamrks, that I don't feel were fairly denied.

I am trying to figure out why a two year old thread was resurrected?

BruceS:

I am trying to figure out why a two year old thread was resurrected?

It probibly came up in a search by someone who was doing due dilligence to ensure that the subject hadn't been discussed before.

gt.us:

BruceS:

I am trying to figure out why a two year old thread was resurrected?

It probibly came up in a search by someone who was doing due dilligence to ensure that the subject hadn't been discussed before.

But that does not appear to be the case.

BruceS:

I am trying to figure out why a two year old thread was resurrected?

it seems as if several people have had new comments on the issues discussed in the thread.

BruceS:

gt.us:

BruceS:

I am trying to figure out why a two year old thread was resurrected?

It probibly came up in a search by someone who was doing due dilligence to ensure that the subject hadn't been discussed before.

But that does not appear to be the case.

Meh. It's old but not closed so it's still eligible for comments. *shrug.

Frankly, I'm relieved to see that hissy fits and arguments over declined waymarks aren't anything new and they were just as annoying two years ago as they are now.

Yeah, really OLD thread and the original incident is long past, so not even to get into who annoyed whom.

We all get waymarks declined.   Sometimes a reviewer may have missed something or misunderstood something, and a simple clarification will help.  Sometimes the reviewer misses it just because it is not all that clear, or maybe he/she was rushed.  A little patience both ways is in order.

I appreciate a waymarker who points our something I've overlooked, but do get annoyed by argumentative people who just won't take no for an answer.

The other thing that has been raised in the recent posts to this thread is that of inconsistency.  I'll admit this can really be annoying, but is partly inevitable.  Let's see - 900+ categories all with at least three officers, some more, some not active, but potentially 3,000 different reviewers.  And, it may be that not all officers are as knowledgeable about the category or interpret the standards the same.  I know that it is difficult to be consistent within a category, sometimes even with myself! 

The matter of precedent has been raised, and it is a thorny one.  My basic philosophy is that precedence is a weak argument.  In some cases it may be valid, but just because a bad waymark made it through doesn't mean that another one should.  And, I think standards may change over time, and in some cases actual changes are made in category requirements (which should be clearly noted in the description).   I think some of my earlier waymarks might be declined today, just like some of the earlier categories would never make it through peer review in today's climate.

Sometimes it's not easy to let go of an issue we feel strongly about, but the quicker I can move on to the next waymark, the better off I am.  So much to learn, enjoy and create - I'm not going to let anyone else rob me of my fun!

gt.us:

I had a muffler man denied because it "wasn't a muffler man". Last weekend I was in the neighborhood and saw that it had been approved when someone else submitted it.

Things like that encourage me to argue my case a little more.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't set up a reminder to resubmit a month later on my denied wayamrks, that I don't feel were fairly denied.

Yes, If it is the one I think, I emailed the fellow officer who approved that one and let them know it was an error. They either didn't get the message or didn't want to bother with the hassle of re reviewing the thing. I opted to stay out of it not wanting to start an issue with another waymarker who I respect.

I was unaware that it had been declined earlier. Frustrating I am sure. Did you submit it in the Highway giants cat?