Groundspeak Portal

There are some large annual quilt shows (click here)

But, many small quilt guilds have annual quilt shows.  Quilters flock to these shows.  Generally they are in the same location each year but not always.

I propose to create a category to list these shows.  I think the principle quilting nations are the US and Japan, but there are quilt shows in most if not all nations -- Canada, Europe, Australia, Russia, India, and on and on. 

If there's support here and I can get volunteers I'll from a Group and write a category description

I created a group

My wife is the one who wants this category and she has some friends who have volunteered to be officers.   So, now I just need to know if it's likely to get approved.  I spent about 16 hours working up the Picture Pollution category just to have all that effort dumped in the bit bucket.  I don't want to repeat that experience. 

As long as you  have  ---> "Open enrollment: OFF" <--- you'll never get offers for officers. (& don't forget that "Officers" have to be "Premium Members" too)
B.T.W: We all had a Category or two that we thought was the next best thing  to sliced bread  denied in Peer Review.

Jake39:

B.T.W: We all had a Category or two that we thought was the next best thing  to sliced bread  denied in Peer Review.

That's why I'm trying to avoid more waste of my meagre remaining time in the veil of tears.

I take it from the absence of negative comments in your reply you'd support this category?

thot:

That's why I'm trying to avoid more waste of my meagre remaining time in the veil of tears.

Well it's clear I'm not cut out for this activity.  I suggested my wife and her friends get involved and manage a category based on their hobby.  They got excited about it and I spent more of my life working up and going through all the hoops to propose this category, just to have it turned down and all that collective energy frittered away with a 60% vote.  After my last proposal, which was also denied, I was advised to post here and get a sense of the group.  So, I posted this topic here to be sure there wasn't resistance to the category – as none was forthcoming, we proceeded.

The main technical objection to the category was that the location wasn’t permanent.  Here are a few excerpts:

•    the place of the show would change each year so its not a static waypoint.
•    Bad idea -- waymarking is about providing coordinates for PLACES!
•    This does not pass the permanence test.
•    waymarks should not be for temporary locations.
•    These events move around.

There’s a good chance my wife knows more about quilt shows than others here collectively, and these objections are untrue.  Quilt shows are typically at the same location each year, and usually only move if the facility becomes too small, unavailable, etc.

But, I guess nobody paid any attention to this category .  Some of these waymarks were captured driving down the street.  Quilt shows are far and away more repeatable locations than many of the waymarks in this category.

I specifically asked in the forums here if waymarks that are sometimes in different places are allowed and was told they are, otherwise we would not have wasted our time.

If a waypoint must be permanent and stationary where’s that requirement stated?  And, if there is such a requirement, obvious violations like the one I cited above and the others like it should be deleted, as they drew me into wasting my and my wife's and her friends’ time and energy screwing with this.   More than a little planning and coordination went into it.

Somebody reading this thread/topic should have pointed out categories that move occasionally aren’t allowed.  What’s the purpose of posting here if it isn’t to find out if there’s a problem with a category?   If they are allowed, and some obviously are, a claim that they aren’t allowed should not be permitted as the basis for a nay vote.

There were complaints that waymarks cannot be temporary, and that quilt shows are really festivals and should fall under festivals (which by the way are annual, not permanent) -- these folks must not have noticed categories like balloon festivals which are festivals and no more permanent than quilt shows.

We’re talking about displays of quilts and quilt art, not gala festivities of eating drinking, wearing funny hats and making merry.  If you read the festivals category you will see it refers to community wide festivals.   It states “Annual County wide Festivals, Annual City wide Festivals, Annual State wide Festivals, Annual National Festivals” are what’s included.

And, I don’t think anyone considers permanent displays at institutions, like museums, to be “festivals.” 

“They’re not prevalent enough,” has to be from someone who knows nothing about quilting.  There are almost certainly more quilt shows than balloon festivals and many other categories.  There are multiple quilt shows in the Houston area each year and only one balloon festival.   And, there are quilt shows in small towns all over the US, but almost no balloon festivals or Foucault pendulums in these towns.  If prevalence is a requirement I suggest immediate removal of the Foucault pendulum category.  Without question, there are hundreds more quilt shows than Foucault pendulums.  Now, I really don’t want it removed.  But, it certainly doesn’t meet a prevalence requirement, and neither do other categories, while quilt shows are fairly prevalent.

But then, water towers and McDonalds certainly meet the prevalence requirement, and we all know how people are chomping at the bit to go visit water towers.

Actually, the largest number of nay votes, about half, were of the “I’m not interested in quilts,” ilk.   Gee.  We didn’t realize almost everybody involved in waymarking had to enjoy quilting to get the category approved or we certainly wouldn’t have proposed it.   I’m sure non-quilters aren’t as interested in the quilt shows as the about 30 million quilters in the US, however many more people visit quilt shows than quilt themselves.  But, I think these ‘Why have categories that don’t interest me personally’ nay voters are probably the most honest comments in the bunch, since the others are incoherent and inconsistent they had to be rationalizations, not reasons, for voting nay.

I’ve seen threads here pondering why there’s not more interest in waymarking.  After having two categories in a row tuned down, I don’t wonder.   You have to waste a lot effort and suffer much bureaucratic BS, just to have it all summarily poured down a rat hole based on a the basis of illogical, incompatible, incoherent reasons.   Understand it wasn’t just my time that was wasted, but as a result of my encouragement, others too wasted their time, enthusiasm and suffered disappointment.

I know you don’t care, so don’t bother to tell me, but you can take this operation and shove it.

People on waymarking can be fickle. Take it in stride. I've had people vote nay on categories because it wasnt their thing. Other people hate chains, some dont like temperary things. To each their own. Try rewording the category, taking into account what people said in peer review and give it another shot.

You were very close to having this category approved - I really wish you wouldn't give up on it now. I think another big part of the community's disapproval was for the small number of potential waymarks for the category. Is it possible to expand the idea to include all arts and crafts festivals? I'm certain a category like that could be passed.

Here's a good example of a category that didn't initially pass but was reworked and made it the second time around.

You're a huge asset here, Thot. I hate to see you upset.

Sorry to hear your category didn't make it through peer review, thot. For the record, I gave it a thumbs up, despite my ignorance about quilting in general, and quilt shows in particular. I thought this was a workable category, and think it could still be made to work.

My understanding of the way we are supposed to vote during peer review is to do so without personal preference bias. In other words, I've voted in favor of a number of categories that I had no interest in, or that I actually didn't care for. I've also voted against categories that I really liked because I found the descriptions to be unworkable, but with suggestions for how to fix it. I find it troublesome that people would vote against an otherwise appropriate category simply because they didn't like it, or had no interest in it. The voting page provides the criteria for voting, but perhaps people aren't reading it, or perhaps it is time to rework the wording on that page a bit so people have a better understanding of how they should be voting.

My personal preference these days is to encourage the development of categories that are somewhat non-traditional, and to me, your Quilt Show category fits that bill. I think these types of categories will help Waymarking grow over time, and help it appeal to a wider audience. I also think the approval of such categories helps others think about outside-the-box ideas for categories, rather than just trying to figure out which commercial chains don't have a category yet. I'd love to see you try to rework the Quilt Show category and get it through.

Nate's suggestion of expanding the category to include arts and crafts festivals would probably do the trick, but I don't get the sense that that's really what you wanted for this category. My suggestion would be to make it clearer in your description that Quilt Shows are more common than people might think. Give plenty of examples, maybe provide links to some web sites. Make the category sound like it could be appealing to lots of people, and ask people to consider favorable voting even if they've never attended a quilt show. If you believe there are hundreds of potential waymarks out there, say so.

Of course, there are no guarantees that your category will pass the second time either. But I think it's worth trying.

One final thought - don't confuse the support, or lack thereof, in the forums with the real support (or lack thereof) for your category during peer review. My guess is that lots of people don't participate in discussions here, even if they do participate in peer review. So sometimes extra 'selling' on the description page can be more helpful than trying to get consensus in the forums.

I agree with CTD.  Even though the people aren't voting based on the given criteria, address their concerns by noting in the description that quilt shows are annual events (sometimes bi-annual) that take place yearly at the same spot.

As the daughter of a quilter, I have gone to more quilt shows than I ever could have wanted to, and I can attest that they take place in the same locations.  I went to them year after year after year...   I voted yes, but one thing I would like to see changed about the category is the necessity of attending the event.  The goal of the category is to find out where and when these quilt shows take place.  Pictures inside would be nice, but will turn some people off from posting.  If they have the information of where and when the show is, wouldn't a photo of the exterior of the building where it takes place at work?  Most of the shows around here require admission and I personally don't want to pay to go.  It can be a beautiful art form, but it just isn't my thing.  I'd waymark them if I didn't have to attend - there are several clubs in my area that put on shows.

I hope you'll consider sticking with it, Jim.  You are a great asset to the community.

An aside:  It would be nice if when a leader sends a category to peer review they could have a spot to post a note in that would show when the category was opened or something.  Here they could note possible concerns and issues that don't necessarily need to be mentioned in the description itself.  I'm of the opinion that many voters aren't even reading the category descriptions and having something short at the top of the cat or even in the peer review list would make if more likely that they would at least read that.

hikenutty:

An aside:  It would be nice if when a leader sends a category to peer review they could have a spot to post a note in that would show when the category was opened or something.  Here they could note possible concerns and issues that don't necessarily need to be mentioned in the description itself.  I'm of the opinion that many voters aren't even reading the category descriptions and having something short at the top of the cat or even in the peer review list would make if more likely that they would at least read that.

Excellent suggestion, hikenutty.

I like that too. Maybe an extra field when creating a category for arguing in favor of it during peer review. Afterwards the paragraph could be stripped from the category. Something like "Convince us why this is a good category in 100 words or less."

Dude, don't give up!  I too was frustrated by the process and was ready to give it up completely. Give it  a rest for about a week and then go back and rework it. Take a look at the comments and try to address them in your changes. Watch the forum and respond to the questions that come up. I am sure there are quite a few lurkers out there who would benefit from the responses.  Don't rush through it either. I am still tweeking Lucky 7. 

Think of the community  as the makings of a quilt. At first, it is hard to imagine it coming together as a single item. It takes time and effort to make it work. 

 

If at first you don't succeed... try, try again....

Stopped at a quilt shop the other day....logging a new waymark and noticed a couple of interesting location quilt shows advertised on the window...they would be great to waymark...but I would have to do that after the fact as the location is not going to be visited by me at that time.  Perhaps an instruction to post the a date or month that the show takes place in the short description would help waymarkers and quilters identify which show to go to when...

Keep on it...

KE