Groundspeak Portal

This is just a vague idea, to see what people think.  Even if there is a positive response, I don't intend to do anything about it until the new year.

Here in the UK I often see all kinds of buildings that display the date of construction.  By this I mean some kind of stonework or plaque that was integrated in the fabric of the building when it was built (not a tin label added recently).

Some of these are ostentatious affairs, full of their own self importance , with the year in Roman numerals, but others are ordinary hum drum buildings, like the house with "1911" on it that I passed this morning.

As a category it would be interesting to see the different styles of building at different times around the world.  I'd request Waymarkers to add any extra historical information they may know.  It would also give ordinary otherwise unexceptional buildings a chance to be waymarked.

I don't know if this is a peculiarly British habit or if it's widespread.  I used to live in New York years ago, but I can't remember if buildings had dates on them.  I'm going over to France soon, so I'll have a look to see what I see there.

Any thoughts?

I think of what you refer are called Cornerstones.

 

It was more commonly used years ago and I have seen a few newer one's as well.

CORNERSTONES WIKI

I have also seen them as cornices along the top of buildings...typically historical three and four story.  What do I think...the idea has some merit.

Yes, that's the kind of thing.  Have a look around and see if you come across anything interesting.  I'll do the same and post some photos and we'll see if it's worth pursuing.

Team Sieni:

Yes, that's the kind of thing.  Have a look around and see if you come across anything interesting.  I'll do the same and post some photos and we'll see if it's worth pursuing.

I didn't look at the cornerstones wiki, but when I read your OP, I didn't think of Cornerstones at all.  I thought of a date near the top of the front of a building......

Like the old Cochise County Courthouse building in Tombstone, AZ: link

The date visible in this pic link

And NOT the cornerstone of the building: link

<> Here is one that is also a Benchmark.
GF0499 D 52
I have many examples but will have to find where I have the pictures.
I have a Waymark 1st of a Kind in Utah(Utah's First Capitol) but will have to look that one up too.

 

I have long wished for a cornerstone category.

the idea of the date's on buildings is an interesting one as well and would make a good cat as well but a bit harder to set up. Cornerstones are easy to define. Date of construction marks on buildings are a bit harder to describe. I think they should be dates that are built into the design of the structure and not plaques or things of that nature.
Example
Example 2

Another thought is a category that includes both cornerstones and these things (whatever they are called) and give a varible for each type.

I have long wished for a cornerstone category.

the idea of the date's on buildings is an interesting one as well and would make a good cat as well but a bit harder to set up. Cornerstones are easy to define. Date of construction marks on buildings are a bit harder to describe. I think they should be dates that are built into the design of the structure and not plaques or things of that nature.
Example
Example 2

Another thought is a category that includes both cornerstones and these things (whatever they are called) and give a variable for each type.

I see a lot of cornerstones on churches everywhere. Here are some examples. I normally try to take a picture of one if I am waymarking a church that has a historical marker.

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=81c73bbf-c735-4d2f-b6ef-efea04aa074c
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=078898cf-2719-4bd4-aa64-4132ace38871
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=78f35d7b-bfba-4ca0-a098-0dc8deff206f
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=d92b558c-61c4-4d72-b726-fbef17507708

Hi

Nearly a year later ...

I will create a group for this probably on Friday, and start work on the cat this weekend.

The category text will go something like this:

Putting the date of construction on a building or other structure like a bridge is a statement of confidence and optimism. Confidence in that that creation of this building was a noteworthy event.  Optimism that the building will still be around many years hence.  One normally associates such confidence with large public projects like libraries or churches, but some surprisingly humble structures have made similar statements.

Often the date is present on a cornerstone, or ceremonial foundation stone, along with a record of the dignitaries present at "laying the first stone" ceremony.  In other cases the date inscribed higer up, on an archway or above a collonade.

We are only looking for dates that were (as far as can be determined) put in place at the time of construction, and those that have been incorporated into the fabric of the building.  Please, no plaques that have been added as an afterthought, or signs that have been put up in later years.  (Although, in the case of an all-metal structure like a suspension bridge a plaque may be acceptable as the constructors had no other option).

When creating your waymark you are strongly encouraged to research the background to the building.  Who built it? What was surrounding area like at the time of construction?  Was this a construction boom? How have things changed?

Variables: 
Type: Cornerstone/Archway/other
Text of inscription

Any comments?

Do you think they are too prevalent? 
Too mundane?
Should I put an age limit before year xxxx?  (I don't think so)

Has someone beaten me to it?

I may want to "borrow" some pictures from other waymarks for the cat.  I will, of course contact the relevant waymark owners before I do.

I find the cornerstones to be very interesting.

How many building with dates couldn't be listed in another category? I'm thinking a lot of potential for cross listing.

This would be a good example of a potential new feature. What if this cat listing would only have a closeup of the cornerstone, minimal information, and a link to where it was crosslisted, if it was crosslisted? This would save all the uploading and bandwidth, but also allow us to look at buildings by cornerstone dates. If it wasn't crosslisted, it would be a good place to put a full waymark for things that weren't cross listable, like a newer church of an unwaymarked denomination.

globetrotters.us:

I find the cornerstones to be very interesting.

How many building with dates couldn't be listed in another category? I'm thinking a lot of potential for cross listing.

Good point

globetrotters.us:

This would be a good example of a potential new feature. What if this cat listing would only have a closeup of the cornerstone, minimal information, and a link to where it was crosslisted, if it was crosslisted? This would save all the uploading and bandwidth, but also allow us to look at buildings by cornerstone dates. If it wasn't crosslisted, it would be a good place to put a full waymark for things that weren't cross listable, like a newer church of an unwaymarked denomination.

Are you talking about a possible enhancement to the WM site? (to allow you to link x-listed waymarks together).  I'm not holding my breath until GS allocates resources to upgrade the WM site, but I do agree with  you.

How about if I add two variables?

Waymark code (or hyperlink) to existing waymark of the building (optional)
Name of cat containing existing waymark (optional).

If the building is already waymarked, the requirement will be only for a close up showing the date.  If not then we'd also request a full view of the building.  Makes for slightly more complex submission criteria, but makes the actual process of submitting easier if you already have it in another cat.

Team Sieni:

Any comments?

 

About time slacker

Team Sieni:

Do you think they are too prevalent?

Some may think so but I feel they while more prevalent than some other items are overlooked enough to be interesting. If the idea fails then the cornerstone idea should be submitted as a stand alone category.

Team Sieni:

Too mundane?

While some of them may be mundane most provide an insight into the buildings history that is relevant.

Team Sieni:

Should I put an age limit before year xxxx?  (I don't think so)

I think any age limit is unnecessary in this category. Limits should be that the date be worked into the structure somehow. No signs etc. What about an entry mosaic with a date? Allowed? I have no preference either way but it is an instance that will come up. Does teh date have to be worked in stone/concrete in some manner?

Team Sieni:

Has someone beaten me to it?

Not that I know of.

Team Sieni:

I may want to "borrow" some pictures from other waymarks for the cat.  I will, of course contact the relevant waymark owners before I do.

I have a few that I could point out and if they were interesting enough you would be welcome to use them. Here are a couple that come to mind but I have more that I haven't waymarked yet.

Former Post Office Moscow Idaho

Historical Landmark   Has an ugly photo stamp on it so not usable

Team Sieni:

Are you talking about a possible enhancement to the WM site? (to allow you to link x-listed waymarks together).  I'm not holding my breath until GS allocates resources to upgrade the WM site, but I do agree with  you.

How about if I add two variables?

Waymark code (or hyperlink) to existing waymark of the building (optional)
Name of cat containing existing waymark (optional).

If the building is already waymarked, the requirement will be only for a close up showing the date.  If not then we'd also request a full view of the building.  Makes for slightly more complex submission criteria, but makes the actual process of submitting easier if you already have it in another cat.

We have been asking for a cross liting enhancement for a while. I keep crossing my fingers.

I like how you described the work around, with a variable for cross listed. I guess you would have to decide if you could only cross list to yourself, or anyone. My vote would be anyone, but you need your own photo for the date waymark.

globetrotters.us:

Team Sieni:

Are you talking about a possible enhancement to the WM site? (to allow you to link x-listed waymarks together).  I'm not holding my breath until GS allocates resources to upgrade the WM site, but I do agree with  you.

How about if I add two variables?

Waymark code (or hyperlink) to existing waymark of the building (optional)
Name of cat containing existing waymark (optional).

If the building is already waymarked, the requirement will be only for a close up showing the date.  If not then we'd also request a full view of the building.  Makes for slightly more complex submission criteria, but makes the actual process of submitting easier if you already have it in another cat.

We have been asking for a cross liting enhancement for a while. I keep crossing my fingers.

I like how you described the work around, with a variable for cross listed. I guess you would have to decide if you could only cross list to yourself, or anyone. My vote would be anyone, but you need your own photo for the date waymark.

I also think this is a good idea. The cornerstone or date shows the specific item the category is interested in and the link shows an overview of the structure if there is a waymark at the location already.

I reread the thread and noticed I repeated myself with a couple of thoughts in my previous post last year. At least I am consistent in my thinking....even if I do forget what I already said.

Group created here.  Anyone interested?

 

In peer review now.

Team Sieni:

In peer review now.

 

I already voted! Good luck!!!

- Elle

Category approved. 

I'll make one or two minor wording tweaks in response to some suggestions and make it publicly visible soon (tomorrow probably).

Thanks to everyone who voted, either Yea, Nay or Abstain.  There were NO rude or intemperate comments, not one.  All of the deny/abstain made sensible points.

It was a strong Yea vote, but I'd like to address the Nays and Abstains, although  I will paraphrase them, rather than quoting them direct.

Mostly the negative points were:

• Too prevalent / not standout.
• The buildings will have nothing in common other than that they have the date of construction on display.  There's no cohesive theme.

It's true that the buildings have nothing in common, but that's not really the point.  We will be able to concentrate on the ways in which the architect felt free to express themselves in displaying the date (some fancy brickwork, or a little bit of a decorative flourish on an otherwise mundane building that wouldn't make it into any category otherwise.

Also I'm hoping is that it will tell us something broader about the area (which is why I want the date in the title of the waymark), these waymarks will - if we get a sufficient number of them - show a little bit of construction history of the area.  (eg these buildings were put up after the construction of the train station/new road/new  bridge brought business to the area.

I do have some sympathy with these points though, which is why I canvassed opinion here before going ahead.

There were some pro and some anti comments about the link to a cross-listed Waymark.  I've taken on board the anti suggestions, (ie you can already do this using find nearest, it only works in one direction), given them consideration, but decided to leave it as is.  Let's see how it goes.  I may well be proved wrong.

Maybe it will be too prevalent - time will tell.  My own experience in the UK suggests not, and I'm hoping that seeing the date of construction proudly carved on a woodshed, alongside the stonework of a great library will have some kind of wow factor. 

I'll make it available tomorrow.

Congratulations!!

 

- Elle

From reading the forum description, and the the voting write up, I became more aware of the cornerstones. I might have just walked by, but I stopped and looked at one on a building that started it's life as a Salvation Army Building. It's probibly been gutted and renovated several times over the years, but the proud corner stone remains.

What's going on with this category?  I know I saw an approved waymark go by in the list, but when I go to the category, there are none listed.

There are 25 showing currently.  You might want to clear filter when you go to category depending on how you are accessing the category.

Duuuhhh..  I forgot when you click on it from the category grid, it only shows you yours and I haven't gotten around to posting any yet.

Thanks