Groundspeak Portal

The term speed trap refers to a point where speed limits are strictly enforced by police. It is generally understood as meaning a specific location in which police wait in concealment. For example, a police car might wait behind a bridge or overpass, out of sight of approaching motorists, but has also been applied to locations where a speed camera is posted.

 

Speed traps have been used since the beginning of the 20th Century as a means to enforce speed limits,  Cities or road sections become known as speed traps where police have a reputation for writing an unusually high number of traffic tickets, especially speeding tickets - thanks to wiki.

 

I do not want to get into the politics of speed traps.  Speed traps are place for specific reasons, yes some are used as revenue generators but most are in place because a specific area has known safety concerns and the LEO’s are assigned to a specific area to strictly enforce the posted speed limits.  This could be an individual officer or a roving patrol involving multiple officers.

 

Speed traps can be enforced using speed cameras,aircraft, radar, stop watches/stripes on the road (Vascar), officers observations and by many other means.

 

As geocachers,citizens,responsible drivers we all have the responsibility to pay attention to our sourrondings, this includes the posted speed limits.  Unfortunately not everyone is perfect with their driving abilities and accidents do happen.  Running a little late for work, kids crying, mother-in-law helping from the back seat – everyone has been there.  The speedodometer creaps up and before you know it it’s too late. 

 

Speeding can be very costly, out of pocket expences, court hearings/missed work, insurance premiums increase, suspensions can be imposed, traffic accidents can happen all of which means money lost in the long run.

 

My main goal with the speed trap waymark is for users to mark known, aggressively enforced speed traps.  Other waymarkers/geocachers/GPS users could input the speed trap waymark into their GPS.  Having the proximity alarm set to alert you as you approach the speed trap will allow you to safely check and monitor your speed as you approach and travel through a known speed trap.

There are several speed trap sites posted to the internet (Speedtrap.org) but these do not provide much useful information for GPS navigation.  We all have GPS’s, many have autoroute navigation why not have a waymark category for speed traps.  I feel that this will be a very benificial feature to have as a cost savings to the enduser not to mention the old saying “speed kills”.

link to original thread - http://portal.groundspeak.com/forums/thread/5520.aspx

link to the speed trap group - http://www.waymarking.com/groups/details.aspx?f=1&guid=5bd53dee-aa8d-475d-86cc-12817b6b9546

 

Thank you for your consideration - hope to see some helpful/useful waymarks soon :)

ned sounds like a neat group

Still looking for other members - all welcome.

Major travel holiday weekend - the boys in blue will be out in full force.  Just think of this thread when you are running around.  Be safe and buckle up :)

I'm glad I don't live in VA.  I'm sure some have already read this  - be safe out there :)http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070629/a_newlaws29.art.htm

Still looking for a few :)

By Dennis Cauchon
USA TODAY 

Virginia is for lovers, or so the state tourism slogan has declared since 1969. Starting Sunday, Virginia also will be the home of the $3,000 traffic ticket.

In an effort to raise money for road projects, the state will start hitting residents who commit serious traffic offenses with huge civil penalties.

The new civil charges will range from $750 to $3,000 and be added to existing fines and court costs. The civil penalty for going 20 mph over the speed limit will be $1,050, plus $61 in court costs and a fine that is typically about $200.

Virginia's traffic law is one of several thousand new state laws that take effect Sunday. Jan. 1 and July 1 are the most popular dates for state laws to become official.

July 1 is especially popular for new taxes and fees because it's the start of the budget year in 46 states. For example, Arkansas will cut its sales tax on groceries from 6% to 3% Sunday.

Virginia's new traffic penalties are expected to raise $65 million a year and are part of an effort to improve the state's roads without raising taxes.

A first-time drunken driver will face a $2,250 civil penalty, plus fines and court costs that typically run about $500 or more. Driving without a license? That's a mandatory $900 civil penalty, in addition to the ordinary $100 for a fine and court costs.

"It's outrageous," says traffic court attorney Thaddeus Furlong of Springfield, Va. "When Mr. and Mrs. Middle Class find out what they have to pay, there's going to be a backlash like you've never seen."

Some other states impose extra civil penalties for traffic offenses, but the cost is usually $100 or $200, Furlong says. "What sets this apart is the Draconian size of the civil penalties," he says.

Another difference: The civil penalties apply only to Virginia residents, not out-of-state drivers. Virginians must pay in three installments over 26 months or lose their licenses. The state Legislature didn't think it could enforce the extra penalties in other states.

Motorist club AAA Mid-Atlantic supports the new penalties.

"These penalties are harsh, but normal fines haven't gotten people to drive sanely. Maybe this will," says Lon Anderson, spokesman for AAA Mid-Atlantic.

He says the new law will help reduce the nearly 1,000 traffic deaths the state records annually.

"We wish motorists didn't have to pay more, but the fact is Virginia's transportation trust fund is broke," Anderson says.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5a6_1174077305

Just something fun to watch and think about :)

Sorry to bump an old thread but.......I still would like to get the group up and running.  Hey, it's free, what more could you want

Found a couple of links, can I claim I was first
http://www.trapster.com/index.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcm6yq68EpY

I hope this catagory would include red light cameras intersections.

You still need to add another officer to begin writing the category.

Johnny_Quest:

I hope this catagory would include red light cameras intersections.

Speed Cameras would be the wrong name if it included other means of (Automated) Traffic Enforcement, like Red Light Cameras. It would be better named "Traffic Enforcement" or such.

Now, I do have to ask the question --- this is covered quite nicely by POIFriends and such sites for people that just want alerts on their GPS.

How would this be a good waymarking category --- ? I mean, around here walking up to a police officer on duty, snapping his/her photo and recording the co-ordinates is just begging to be interpreted wrong. The United Kingdom (not where I live) just activated a new law on Monday that effectively makes it illegal to photograph a police officer (anti-terrorism laws), or so the photography blogs have been buzzing about this week.

I know a few of us would be smart enough to actually ask permission first but ... there's a good opportunity to get in trouble.

If we're just talking about speed CAMERAs and such that particular issue goes away. Another potential issue here is the idea of permanence. Waymarking tends to be about the location, and while speed traps can tend to go to similar places repeatedly, they will also move around when the speeders learn to behave, or (more typically) the speeders catch on to that particular trap.

"Take a photo of a radar trap, and mark the location" sorta calls out "Photo Challenge" more than "Category"

I can see no purpose for having a waymarking category which is basically there for you to violate the law.  Why would you need to know where speed traps or red light cameras are unless you habitually violate the law by speeding or running red lights.  Obey the law then you don't care where they are.

What would be next DUI/DWI enforcement zones?

I see no reason to document places where there are red light cameras, especially since not all traffic cameras record and analyse film for motion violations. There's no way to tell. I don't know where DUI/DWI comes in.

However, it is local info to know where the speed traps are. Should people drive 25mph down a 2-mile road by my parents' house that has nothing but two wilderness parks? Yes, that's the limit. Do people tend to push it to 30 - 40mph? You bet. Do officers park back in there between 2 and 6pm to catch people going 10+mph over the limit? Yep. Do most people know that? Nope.

Sting day is fun. One guy hides out the woods and just shoots the radar. Four to five cars wait just a half mile down and pull 'em all over.

You see, letting people know about a speed trap does not encourage speeding, it discourages it by letting people know they should not speed or they will be pulled over and cited for the violation.

Should everybody obey the speed limit all the time? Yes. This category doesn't say otherwise. All the boy scouts out there should stand at ease.

Does an officer have to be photographed? No. I don't see where that would even be necessary. I'd recommend images of the street sign and maybe a scenic one of the street just for site recognition. I don't see why an image would be necessary for a visit, unless someone wanted to snap a quick one of somebody being ticketed. That'd be funny.

There is a website that lists speedtraps by area. It's been a while since I was there, but it might be speedtrap.org, it doesn't look the same, but then most don't look like they did 7-8 years ago.

I don't think having knowledge of a speed trap would encourage someone to speed. I don't really pay any attention to the speed signs, as most speed limits are right around the speed I feel comfortable driving. Every now and again, they throw something counter-intuitive into the mix. Thats what I'd like to know about in advance. I got a ticket in Missouri last year, maybe in Rolla? The speed limit goes down for a mile or two, and then goes back up. The locals know that there is a speed trap set up there, it's a tourist tax.

This would be a globally prevalent category. We got pulled over in Serbia a few years back. They didn't bother with the ticket, though. They just asked how much money we had. They even took US dollars. How nice of them!

We've been down this road before... categories based around illegal activities are not well suited for inclusion.

Don't speed, and we don't need a Waymark to tell us that.

BQ

Speed traps aren't illegal, BQ.

Speed traps exist because people speed through those areas. It's a problem. Speed traps help resolve those problems but can only be effective by catching people who are in the act of breaking the limit. Everybody knows they aren't supposed to speed, but for some unknown crazy reason people just keep on speeding. Otherwise Speed Traps wouldn't be necessary at all! By spreading information about Speed Traps, it becomes prevention. People don't "get caught" because they don't break the limit to begin with. Ask any officer and they will tell you that they prefer not to have to stop someone. They'd much rather have someone not break the law than ticket someone who did. Some departments ask the local networks to report where they're clocking people on the morning news. I can call a couple of my cop friends this afternoon and get an "official" feedback... but I already know what they're going to say. They'll probably tell me places to waymark.

Some departments ask the local networks to report where they're clocking people on the morning news.

I agree with the premise that a Category of this nature merely increases the awareness of the problem rather than promoting breaking the law.  Like the similar Locationless Cache, I thought it poked more fun at the people that got busted rather than a means to figure out how to "cheat the system".  I no more think a Category of this sort promotes breaking the law, than the Infamous Crime Scenes promotes or glamorizes murder and mayhem.

The concerns over privacy/terrorist concerns and for the safety of the Officers I completely agree with.  I can't imagine there being similar concerns for automated intersection cameras since those are usually well documented and usually well known to locals.

LOL, I never would have expected someone to think I was suggesting that speed traps were illegal.

What I'm opposed to is cataloging these locations. I'm also opposed to radar detectors in cars.

The entire dynamics around this proposal escape me. Why would anyone "Visit" one? Even then, are you expecting people to use their GPS on the mapping screen while driving to be aware of these locations? People shouldn't be looking at their GPS that much while driving.

"Free Condoms to prevent unwanted pregnancy and STD's", sure because that helps people do something that isn't illegal.
"Speed all you want unless you are near this point on the map" seems akin to "Stores without security systems"... condoning/inviting bad actions

All this category seems to do is provide criminals with another tool to further avoid being caught. You won't get my support on this no matter how you try to pitch this.

BQ

the blue quasar:

"Speed all you want unless you are near this point on the map" seems akin to "Stores without security systems"

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it applies to the Speed Traps category.

Redneck Parrotheads:

the blue quasar:

"Speed all you want unless you are near this point on the map" seems akin to "Stores without security systems"

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it applies to the Speed Traps category.

By the way, he doesn't want to be named on a public forum but an officer for the Punta Gorda Police Department says, "Sounds fine to me. Would you be able to do right after the bridge?"* An officer for Cape Coral Police Department says, "I don't think people should be photographing the officers while they're on patrol but the area, yeah, that's fine. I mean, we already put it on Fox. You know, when we're gonna be there. So hey, go for it."

I don't know anybody at the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office so I thought it'd be a good balance to call them cold, explain Waymarking and ask what they think of the category. Again, good reviews... so I asked her to think of something bad about it. She said, "If you take pictures of the officers or put their names on the internet, that could be a problem. I'd also rather have information coming in about problem areas that we don't patrol so we can patrol them. I don't think that fits into your game at all but I think people should be aware that they need to come to us about new problem areas that need more attention."

So, while you're documenting an existing Speed Trap, think about areas that you can tell your local police department to help keep more of your area safe.

* The Gilchrist Bridge, aka southbound US-41, has a speed limit of 45mph. People usually travel this road upwards to 50mph without problem. When you leave the bridge coming into Punta Gorda, the speed limit drops immediately to 30mph. This is a historic, residential, commercial section that has a lot of pedestrians. It's important that people slow down. The PGFD often monitors this area to make sure people slow down. I can see this being beneficial to waymarkers coming into Punta Gorda (from the north where most of the FL waymarkers live) to visit waymarks and geocache to know that they shouldn't go 50mph on the bridge because it'll make it harder to slow down for the decrease to 30mph.

Redneck Parrotheads:

the blue quasar:

"Speed all you want unless you are near this point on the map" seems akin to "Stores without security systems"

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it applies to the Speed Traps category.

I guess I'd go a little further. I'd say a "Trap" is the integral word here. My definition of a speed trap is a place where a person who normally obeys the posted speeds could be tricked into breaking the law, and someone is ready to take advantage of that. This would be due to poorly posted speed changes, for example.

I really don't think targeted enforcement is a Trap.

Police jokes are really big in Slovenia. So, a slight hijack here:

The policeman was sitting on the curb crying, and the woman asks him "Whats wrong?", and he replies "I lost my dog". She says "Don't worry, he will find his way home", He says "Yes, I know, but I won't".

The policeman looks at the banana peel on the sidewalk and says "Oh no, I'm going to slip again"..

While we are at it lets waymark DWI/DUI enforcement zones so drunk drivers know where not to drive.  Every teenager that gets a speeding ticket claims it was in a speed trap.  What makes it a speed trap?  Just because it is an area where the police enforce the law does that make it a speed trap?  Sounds like it in this thread.

Redneck Parrotheads:

the blue quasar:

"Speed all you want unless you are near this point on the map" seems akin to "Stores without security systems"

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it applies to the Speed Traps category.

You are kidding me right?

BQ

Redneck Parrotheads:

Redneck Parrotheads:

the blue quasar:

"Speed all you want unless you are near this point on the map" seems akin to "Stores without security systems"

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it applies to the Speed Traps category.

By the way, he doesn't want to be named on a public forum but an officer for the Punta Gorda Police Department says, "Sounds fine to me. Would you be able to do right after the bridge?"* An officer for Cape Coral Police Department says, "I don't think people should be photographing the officers while they're on patrol but the area, yeah, that's fine. I mean, we already put it on Fox. You know, when we're gonna be there. So hey, go for it."

I don't know anybody at the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office so I thought it'd be a good balance to call them cold, explain Waymarking and ask what they think of the category. Again, good reviews... so I asked her to think of something bad about it. She said, "If you take pictures of the officers or put their names on the internet, that could be a problem. I'd also rather have information coming in about problem areas that we don't patrol so we can patrol them. I don't think that fits into your game at all but I think people should be aware that they need to come to us about new problem areas that need more attention."

So, while you're documenting an existing Speed Trap, think about areas that you can tell your local police department to help keep more of your area safe.

* The Gilchrist Bridge, aka southbound US-41, has a speed limit of 45mph. People usually travel this road upwards to 50mph without problem. When you leave the bridge coming into Punta Gorda, the speed limit drops immediately to 30mph. This is a historic, residential, commercial section that has a lot of pedestrians. It's important that people slow down. The PGFD often monitors this area to make sure people slow down. I can see this being beneficial to waymarkers coming into Punta Gorda (from the north where most of the FL waymarkers live) to visit waymarks and geocache to know that they shouldn't go 50mph on the bridge because it'll make it harder to slow down for the decrease to 30mph.

Excuse me?

The officer doesn't want his name in a public forum? Why not? Someone might search him out and do something illegal? Providing his name might facilitate illegal activities?

Any of that sound familiar to "Identifying where speed traps are located may cause people to act illegally because they know where to avoid or behave"?

Why shouldn't officers be photographed while on duty? Are they doing something they shouldn't be? All the more reason. Tell you what, let's turn off all of the cameras that monitor our movements all day long in offices, in stores, and countless thousands of other areas. Hey, let's block the media from cameras too. Let's ask Rodney King how he feels about capturing the police on camera. That officer at Charlotte County... "If you take pictures of the officers or put their names on the internet, that could be a problem"... that statement alone is a problem. Would they treat a newspaper reporter like that? Not a chance!

You know what I got from your post... a bunch of cops are eager for the extra coverage about speeding awareness but don't want the accountability.

I'd rather see Waymarking remain focused on entertainment and education...

BQ

BruceS:

Why would you need to know where speed traps or red light cameras are unless you habitually violate the law by speeding or running red lights. 

So we know were to deliver the doughnuts. Why else?

Redneck Parrotheads:

Sting day is fun. One guy hides out the woods and just shoots the radar. Four to five cars wait just a half mile down and pull 'em all over.

Does an officer have to be photographed? No. I don't see where that would even be necessary. I'd recommend images of the street sign and maybe a scenic one of the street just for site recognition. I don't see why an image would be necessary for a visit, unless someone wanted to snap a quick one of somebody being ticketed. That'd be funny.

We call them "Wolf Packs" around here. I wouldn't reccommend it whether or not it's illegal to photograph a police officer. It would probably be best to take shots of the area when they're not making their quota. Somebody else being ticketed, that would be funny.