Groundspeak Portal

The group 'Great British Bikers', seek your support for their category 'Great Motorcycle Routes'.

This category seeks to build a database of great motorcycle routes throughout the world. These routes can be long or short, well known or obscure. It could be your favourite leisure ride or your daily commute. Information from contributors on these routes on how to ride competently, safely and lawfully will form a reference facility to enable improved riding skills and casualty reduction.

Officers please vote YEA! Do something positive for the worldwide biker community today! 

Your comments and views appreciated!

Best Wishes AM

First of all, Thanks for coming to the Forums to field some questions.  Typically, I have usually put in a proposal on the Forums BEFORE forming a Group or submitting a new Category for review by the Community.  There are many experienced and enthusiastic individuals on the Forums that can help guide you through the process, and give some advice on making a great Category.

Just to highlight a couple of the difficulties that I saw with your submission included:

1. The emphasis in your Description appeared to be on promoting biking and biking safety, and not as much on actually Waymarking locations.  While admirable goals, I'm not sure Waymarking is an ideal solution for what you are trying to achieve.  You state:

Information from contributors on these routes on how to ride competently, safely and lawfully will form a reference facility to enable improved riding skills and casualty reduction.

To be honest, I have never been on a motorcycle in my life, and probably not likely to.  I'm not competent to submit information regarding "skills and casualty reduction" when it comes to being on a motorcycle.

2. I find it very helpful if the Category Description includes a handful of examples of what it's looking for.   Sometimes it's fairly obvious, like Historical Markers, or other Categories that rely on existing lists (e.g. National Historic Register).  For something like a "route", or trail, it would be helpful to know where exactly you want Waymarked.  The beginning, somewhere in the middle....

For instance, I live fairly close to what must be one of the classic rides: The Big Sur Coast.  At over 100 miles long, running from Carmel on the North end, to San Simeon at the South, I'm not sure where along the route you want marked?  Carmel? San Simeon? Every couple miles along the route?  At any rate, you can see to what ridiculous level of Waymarks you can get if you don't focus the Category a bit more.

I think these are minor tweeks IMO.  Don't get discouraged if your Category gets rejected on the first round, but I wouldn't be surprised if it passes as is.

Good luck!

Where to waymark it? Look at National Wild and Scenic Rivers.

Also, I'd like to join the group.

Fatcat

I had some of the same thoughts as touchstone when reading the category. 

I've only ridden a motorcycle for seven and a half years, so I've not logged near as many hours as many of you, but I wouldn't really know where to begin in waymarking for this category as written.

I know it's a little abstract, and hard to pin dow, examples of the types of roads you want.  Favorite motorcycle roads are going to be different in different geographies.  And I completely agree that the type of road you search for on two wheels is a bit different than what you're looking for when out driving with four, but that's hard to explain to those who've never had that experience. 

So a couple questions:
-Must one ride a motorcycle to be able to post to the category?
-You say to identify an area where the route could begin as the waymark location, so do you want both "ends" of the road marked?  Every logical entrance to the road?
-You mention Google Earth, how would you like this incorporated? examples please?

A couple roads that came to my mind when reading the category are two of my favorite NC roads to ride:  The Blue Ridge Parkway and a little stretch of US Hwy 129 known as Deal's Gap.  The former is a leisurely 400+ miles across North Carolina and Virginia mountain ridge lines, the Parkway has overlooks every mile or so, and you're permitted to pull off at any point to stop and enjoy the road/scenery.  Deal's Gap is an 11 mile stretch on the NC/TN boarder, it's nickname is "The Dragon" partially because of it's 318 mountain curves and partially because of its tendancy to injure the knights who try to "slay" it.  Scroll down on the website and check out the "tree of shame". 

I'm not certain that there is a different choice between two and four wheels in choice of a good ride.  To me I would be very happy with my convertible on The Blue Ridge Parkway.  My point in my peer review comments were this is a category that could work as just great rides and would be more inclusive.

And then most of them would fall in the Scenic Byways cat wouldn't they?

I'm not a biker but I married one and I know a lot of bikers. If you know bikers, you know how they love organised rides and they work on these routes and tweek them to be the most scenic, safe and enjoyable ride. Not too long, not too short, ammenities, scenery, fuel stations (at good prices), no crazy drivers, no surprise pot holes, etc etc etc...

Some of them Geocache, some of them Waymark.

I was honoured when a local waymarker/geocacher used some of my waymarks to design a ride. That's pretty awesome that Waymarking can be incorporated into rides. So why can't rides be incorporated into Waymarking?

This is a great category and it got my vote.

I like the idea of "Scenic Routes" whether it be for car, motorcycles or cycling. But like others, I am confused by what you are looking for in the way of coordinates.

Here's my idea. To make a listing there could be an "Upload Track Data" to a secondary site as part of the Waymark itself. To Visit, one would have to follow the track. One could include points of interest or other Waymarks if they wanted.

I did this for one of my geocaches, and you can see samples at this free site to host files. Take any file and view it using Google Earth.

BQ

To make a listing there could be an "Upload Track Data" to a secondary site as part of the Waymark itself.

Neat idea, although I would assume that you'd have to register on the external site, and although I'm not sure there are specific restrictions on Waymarking of such arrangements, like there is on Geocaching.   If it did get the green light from Groundspeak to use an external site to enhance the Category, I'd recommend Everytrail.  It also has the advantage of geotagging photos, and a pretty slick iPhone app.  Here's a tracklog from my hike yesterday in Pebble Beach:

Del Monte Forest

touchstone:

To make a listing there could be an "Upload Track Data" to a secondary site as part of the Waymark itself.

Neat idea, although I would assume that you'd have to register on the external site, and although I'm not sure there are specific restrictions on Waymarking of such arrangements, like there is on Geocaching.   If it did get the green light from Groundspeak to use an external site to enhance the Category, I'd recommend Everytrail.  It also has the advantage of geotagging photos, and a pretty slick iPhone app.  Here's a tracklog from my hike yesterday in Pebble Beach:

Del Monte Forest

The site that I provided does not require anyone to sign in to use it, except me as the owner. I was very mindful of make sure that others could upload/download without having to create an account, register or use any type of login/password. The local reviewer also got three other reviewers to check it to make sure everything was okay.

The part that I don't know is if people could download a .GPX track to any style of GPS in order to follow the track. I use a Garmin and have access to a 60C, 60Cx and Oregon... but I have not a clue if this would work with a Magellan or Delorme.... or even a Nuvi.

BQ

Inspired by Touchstone, here is my track from April 10th... 23km hike of the Bruce Trail - Section 1

Hmmm...  Wikiloc appears to have similarities to Everytrail, and I'm sure there are other programs out there.    I've thought about creating a 'trail' for one of the self-guided trails I Waymark/visit...  it would be nice to know if we can in fact link to an external site for the enhancement you talk about. 

Also, I have started providing a link to an external site for additional photographs on a few WM's...  is this also questionable or inappropriate?  (sure saves Waymarking alot of space being that I am obsessed with taking photos :-))

This one was a surprise when it popped up in peer review!

I just don't see how this is viable as a waymarking category.
As others have pointed out, there is no clear definition of exactly what geographic points should be recorded with coordinates.   How can you identify a route of many kilometers with a single set of coordinates.  Waymarking is not set up, yet, to identify something with a set of multiple coordinates.

I'm thinking this might work better with the Whereigo GPS game than waymarking.  But, I've not jumped into that ocean yet.

The other major problem, as I see it, is that there is nothing definite to waymark other than what someone invents!  The recent Wild Rivers category uses an already defined set of rivers and river segments, for instance, and has a fairly clear description of what points along the river qualify as potential waymarks.

It seems that anyone could choose any stretch of highway, with arbitray starting and ending points and say it is a good motorcycle route.  I suppose it could even be a route through and urban area.  Does it include unpaved roads?  There is no clear criteria for what could be a route.  Past experience has shown that such highly subjective categories do not fare very well.

So, as I see it, these are two of the major issues you will need to address satisfactorily before this becomes a working waymarking category.  And, and explanation of what the difference is between a "great motorcycle route" and a "great motorcar route!"

So, I'm sure to draw someone's ire for being negative, but I think this is a realistic view of the issues here.  I do hope there are good solutions.

I think that this could work, and as a member of the Walking Tours group there is the option of including a Wherigo cartridge (Touchstone knows far more about Wherigo than I ever will).

The Wherigo option is better than my idea of "follow an uploaded route" for proof since a Wherigo cartridge can be created to have verification codes for completion.

Either way, I see nothing wrong with "Starting Point" and follow route, be it Track Data or Wherigo or both. There are many categories that would benefit from this add-in option.

BQ

We are a couple, and as a result, combine our interests often.  The Mrs. is Huge into Waymarking / Geocacheing, while Hubby is a motorcycle enthusiast.  We have used our GPS to set up rides, marking stops, and combining those rides with waymarking has been fun for both of us.  The idea of how to mark is interesting.  How about marking the start, stop and special interest points?  Could be set up similar to a waymarking tour.  Doesn't have to be a "Motorcycle Ride".   Bikers don't use "Special roads"  (wish we could though).  If it can be fun in a convertable, then it would most likely be fun on a motorcycle.  Information specifically for bikes could entered in the long description if posted by a rider.

I admit I'm on the fence with this one. I would be more apt to approving and supporting a category like this if it were more inclusive to "great rides" or "great driving routes" or "cruise routes", for both car enthusiasts and motorcycle enthusiasts. 

It would make an officer's job easier to approve these routes if they were based on a compilation or listing. Like this one http://www.motorcycleroads.com/index.htm  I bet car and bike magazines have these in their back-issues also.   Wired Magazine has an article/google map on the World's Fastest Roads http://digg.com/d1UM1H so there's got to be a listing for Car Cruising Roads. 

I would require some sort of web link or article mentioning the route by a car club/bike club/directory/etc.  Someone could submit the New Jersey Turnpike or the 5-Fwy through downtown LA and if the officers are from out of state or out of the country, we wouldn't know any better.

How would someone "visit" the WM? Should they provide a photo taken from their car/bike showing their dash/windshield?

Just some food for thought. I look forward to seeing how this category evolves.