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I created a new group for waymarking current, historical, reenacting, and former blacksmith shops. Looking for constructive feedback.

http://www.waymarking.com/groups/details.aspx?f=1&guid=a1eb1014-554f-4b5b-b923-5112b7e7421a

Big B Bob:

I created a new group for waymarking current, historical, reenacting, and former blacksmith shops. Looking for constructive feedback. http://www.waymarking.com/groups/details.aspx?f=1&guid=a1eb1014-554f-4b5b-b923-5112b7e7421a

Only one comment  -  not prevalent enough to sustain a category.  I do have one I could submit, but there just aren't that many.  You'll also have to deal with recreations of these places.  Okay, that's two comments. . .

Hmmm, well there may not be one on every corner, but I think there's enough to justify having a category. Should there only be three waymarked, the category would be larger than the one for Norwegian Post Offices. And if somebody should waymark one at say Sturbridge Village, what's the harm? We've one near us at a place similar to say Sturbridge. They forge things out of metal and sell their wares, just like in the olden days.

team farkle 7:

Hmmm, well there may not be one on every corner, but I think there's enough to justify having a category. Should there only be three waymarked, the category would be larger than the one for Norwegian Post Offices. And if somebody should waymark one at say Sturbridge Village, what's the harm? We've one near us at a place similar to say Sturbridge. They forge things out of metal and sell their wares, just like in the olden days.

Yes, I guess prevalence is a subjective concept.  How many is too many; how few is too few?  It least this has some interest to it.  History. 

We have quite a few categories with just a few waymarks.  Some of them are just bad categories, but that doesn't justify continuing the trend.  Norwegian Post Offices probably doesn't suffer from a prevalence problem, per se, but from a participation problem.  There are worse ones, but I won't mention them.  It was all part of the experiment.

Anyway, I think allowing reproductions, like one would find at Sturbridge Village, would be fine. All I'm saying is that it would need to be addressed in the category description, probably as a variable.  It would broaden the cateogory.  There are other categories that allow for this, such as Vintage Gasoline Pumps, and it works quite well.

i know of several, but you must visit during one of the festivals held there to see it in action...

Hey guys, all good points to discuss! "Recreations" was the word I was looking for, instead of "reenacting"... Thanks Silverquill! Although, I will disagree, there is enough prevalence to sustain this category... I mean, it's no "McDonalds" category, but it will hold it's own. I'm still hashing out the requirements and variables, but we will include reproductions (recreations), festivals and/or renfests, historical blacksmith shops, even if they're now a bar and restaurant ( ie, Jean Lafitte's Blacksmith Shop in New Orleans), and of course, those that are still in business. Hey, we still ride horses who need to be shoed, and they don't shop at Payless Shoes.

I'd like to see it written up.

You also might want to consider whether to include or exclude farriers.  They shoe horses and are colloquially called "blacksmiths" (well they are here) even if they don't any more forge their own horseshoes on an anvil.

THinking further about it, and remembering a piece I read on the net about a business in Finland...do you just mean period reconstructions.  How about small scale blacksmith businesses?

Such as:

http://www.lsktol.fi/vanhat_sivut/forgingweek/1998/HENKILOT/Lehtinen/lehtinen.htm

Yes, we would exclude farriers, that would be a person, not a place. If they have a coal fire, iron, anvil and hammer, and they create horseshoes and other twisted metal... they would be included... no matter how small.

beyond horses, i would be more inclined for those that make weapons, armor, or tools....


so then to clarify: must they use fire, hammer and anvil--and be stationary?

Most of the blacksmith shops here specialize in handmade gates and fences - a quick google search for "kovarstvi" turned out eg. www.hefaiston.cz or kovani.vyrobce.cz.
BTW, this weekend there will be an international blacksmith event here in CZ.

I wouldn't worry about too little prevalence, just don't think there would be very pictorial waymarks in this category - usually that would be an ordinary shop or a village house with a "Kovar" sign

chapterhouseinc:

beyond horses, i would be more inclined for those that make weapons, armor, or tools....


so then to clarify: must they use fire, hammer and anvil--and be stationary?

Ooh, I like the weapon, armor, and tools variables... We will include those!

Fire, Hammer, and Anvil - YES, a must! Just stationary? No, we're also including those that are set up for festivals (ie, Renaissance Festivals)

We had several old BS shops around here. Some are long gone and others are still standing but have nothing to do with BSin' anymore. The one that is no more I can get a pic of back in its hayday. I don't recall seeing an old BS sign out in front of it as the pic was taken from the side. It was right next to a creek that was dammed to run a grist mill. The pic was taken from the other side of the creek. My gramps told me that his house was built on the property of an old BS shop but I have no other proof of that then word of mouth.
I think it would be great if you could include in the short discription if its a working, non-working, destroyed, or building with a different purpose. Right now I only see the one as being possible to re-create using a modern pic next to the old. My gramps old house I would say shouldn't qualify unless I could find actual proof of the BS shop being there. There is at least one in the next town over that is still standing but has a different use.
Not to knock the catagory at all. I really like the idea but what about old carriage shops, coffin makers, creameries, sawmills, glass houses, and other factories? Should we have seperate catagories for each one and I know there's a ton more. I'm thinking that maybe it should be a bygone factory catagory instead. Some may still be in operation today but maybe the methods are still the same from 100 to 200 years ago.
Just something else to chew on. Swizzle

swizzle:

We had several old BS shops around here. Some are long gone and others are still standing but have nothing to do with BSin' anymore. Swizzle

Are you still talkin' about horse shoein' or are you talkin' about the old forums and the old forum regulars some of whom don't sign on anymore?

(on topic) I like the idea overall. I think it will be fine in the prevelence area but do not prefer the waymarking of non-permanent set- ups. The language of location and all that. If there is one posted I want to be able to visit it not find that the site of the "shop" was a temporary location at the local black powder festival. .

If it is not visitable it is not waymarkable in my opinion unless it is in the games category.

So I think you have two items here. Permanent blacksmith/farrier locations and a photo goal for blacksmiths in action.

Well, I guess it don't matter much where you BS as long as the BSin' is done good and proper. Swizzle

I'm beginning to like it, even though I can't think of a real example I'm "fired" (ho ho I'm so funny) to do a bit of research. 

Would they have to be open to the public? - even if only periodically or by appointment. Otherwise, as haggeus says you could get some pretty anonymous buildings with a sign outside saying "Blacksmith" (or "kovar" or "forgeron", "seppä" etc)

Bonus points for a picture of the anvil.  Double dare bonus for a picture of your GPSr on the anvil.

Agree with Bean Team's point about non permanent waymarks by the way.  Also, any category that's not inherently visitable will come in for some criticism and "nay" votes at peer review.  (Believe me)

To submit a BS shop would a pic of then and now be required? I'd like to see pics of a BS shop from the past. So I'm assuming that the one BS shop that was in existance here wouldn't qualify because of the lack of a current building? I'm sure there is still some standing structures around that were once used a a BS shop. I'm just wonderin'? Swizzle

Big B Bob:

Yes, we would exclude farriers, that would be a person, not a place. If they have a coal fire, iron, anvil and hammer, and they create horseshoes and other twisted metal... they would be included... no matter how small.

Coopers/Barrel Makers?  Bending metal is only a small part of their work.

Wheelwrights would be similar, but less prevalent.

Big B Bob:

I created a new group for waymarking current, historical, reenacting, and former blacksmith shops. Looking for constructive feedback. http://www.waymarking.com/groups/details.aspx?f=1&guid=a1eb1014-554f-4b5b-b923-5112b7e7421a

Does the shop still have to be there? Or is an historical marker for the "Site of .... Blacksmith Shop" going to be good enough? Because I know of at least one of those...

How about something like this anvil in front of a cathedral commemorating the first mass held in a blacksmith shop?  St. Agnes Cathedral - Rockville Centre, NY

I think making this a category of historical interest would be the key.

Ditto on not including temporary sites, the permanent recreations are usually interesting for historical reasons.   Random anvils and other smith relics would be of interest only if connected with some historical data, and not just decorative.