Groundspeak Portal

What happens to visits on an archived waymark?

I suppose it's like archiving a geocache? The visit will still count for the
person vsiting the archived waymark - and another person can now waymark the
spot?

The visits are still there.  There really is no need to archive a waymark unless it no longer there thus another person would not be waymarking the spot.

BruceS:

The visits are still there.  There really is no need to archive a waymark unless it no longer there thus another person would not be waymarking the spot.

I was just going to add a note to the waymarks.   I waymarked a mural that I pass everyday, but a couple of weeks ago the entire building was demolished.  But, I still want people to see the mural on the waymark.  And, our campus clock has likewise just been removed for new construction.  (Going on all the time here).  Again, I just thought a note in the short and long descriptions should be sufficient. 

Should these actually be archived?

Ask the category officers if they want you to archive.

I refuse to archive because my waymark is documentation that the site existed. In the categories I lead, I have language that requests that waymarks not be archived. The waymark may become a vital resource for researchers, historians or other interested parties seeking information and photographs for the site... and it may be the only one left, especially with a pinpointed location (coordinates).

It is better to update that the site has been demolished and the waymark remains as documentation of the site, in my opinion.

Redneck Parrotheads:

Ask the category officers if they want you to archive.

I refuse to archive because my waymark is documentation that the site existed. In the categories I lead, I have language that requests that waymarks not be archived. The waymark may become a vital resource for researchers, historians or other interested parties seeking information and photographs for the site... and it may be the only one left, especially with a pinpointed location (coordinates).

It is better to update that the site has been demolished and the waymark remains as documentation of the site, in my opinion.

This is how I prefer waymarks be handled, for exactly the very same reason. Simply state the object waymarked no longer exists or has been relocated, as in the case of an Art*O*Mat or two.

right. but how many marks out there now are considered to be in BQ's 'legacy' status?

how many marks are posted for people to visit, but are not there to visit.

a good example--the yoda lego statue in Downtown Disney. t hasnt been there since mid2007. how long does it have to stay there?

it isnt that your archived marks will dissappear, they just wount be easily findable. the several time i tried to manipulate my marks and see just the archived one i hit bugs--and ended up just moving on....

so then, it the sote eventually going to be come a listing of things that arent there anymore, but used to be?

if you cant visit it, it shouldnt be listed.

I'd assume waymarkers would read waymark pages before attempting to visit. This game isn't quite like Geocaching where so many can easily ignore a cache page. So with that said, I guess I'm just seeing a bigger picture to the purpose of having waymarks posted than the visits for them. *shrug. Different way to play the game.

I'm still unsure if the "LEGACY" method is the right way. I like preserving the history but I also don't want them coming up in searches as if you can still experience them on site.

It would require a site upgrade to make it a viable subset, and ones that could be filtered away. Simply adding "LEGACY" is not enough, there needs to be another status type.

BQ

I think many many more people 'visit' waymarks through websearches, as opposed to in person.

I think the original intent was that people would visit, but thats not how it evolved.

well, i know we all have several methods, but heres my style:

yesterday she said lets go to this museum. i put the address in my gps software--got coords for it.

made a cache PQ of those coords.

searched for waymarks from those coords. filter out my finds (also would then filter out my posts).

bottom of page 1, check all, download loc. repeat until map shows that i am 'out of the area'. its nice to have some overlap, you dont know where you might end up.....

i read none of the mark pages. edit the several loc files to single excel file. import to software. edit file for printing (which i forgot to do yeaterday)--keep WMXXX [poi name], message [the name of the waymark] and the category.

thus, standing at each poi in my gps, look up name on printout, and deduce what im supposed to be visiting.

i then read the mark page when i log my visit.

what if this was caching, and every cache that was no longer there still appeared on searches/maps?

i thought while out yesterday, maybe there needs to be 2 tabs on a category. the first will be all marks that you can currently go visit. and another 'archived tab'--so you could see the historical account of where the 'artomats' were. thus, you can safely archive them, and they are still accessable by the public--not just those who know where the secret room we keep them is in.

people still visit. most in person. many are retrovisits. [though, few actually chande the date on their log from today.].

but then again, i like to visit everything, whereas many i run into are the opportunistic type--they visit whatever they happened to take a pic of. and over the past few days in talks with others, they dont even load points in their gps--now, how hard would that be?

and, how pissed off would you be if you filled your gps with marks to visit, and then found many of them 'missing' when you got there?

silverquill:

Should these actually be archived?

Some I make invisible.

Others I put (GONE)  or (MOVED) in bold letters in the title and then update the descriptions.

Example. MOVED - ATSF 999625 Caboose Display - Oakhurst CA

chapterhouseinc:

well, i know we all have several methods, but heres my style: yesterday she said lets go to this museum. i put the address in my gps software--got coords for it. made a cache PQ of those coords. searched for waymarks from those coords. filter out my finds (also would then filter out my posts). bottom of page 1, check all, download loc. repeat until map shows that i am 'out of the area'. its nice to have some overlap, you dont know where you might end up..... i read none of the mark pages. edit the several loc files to single excel file. import to software. edit file for printing (which i forgot to do yeaterday)--keep WMXXX [poi name], message [the name of the waymark] and the category. thus, standing at each poi in my gps, look up name on printout, and deduce what im supposed to be visiting. i then read the mark page when i log my visit. what if this was caching, and every cache that was no longer there still appeared on searches/maps? i thought while out yesterday, maybe there needs to be 2 tabs on a category. the first will be all marks that you can currently go visit. and another 'archived tab'--so you could see the historical account of where the 'artomats' were. thus, you can safely archive them, and they are still accessable by the public--not just those who know where the secret room we keep them is in. people still visit. most in person. many are retrovisits. [though, few actually chande the date on their log from today.]. but then again, i like to visit everything, whereas many i run into are the opportunistic type--they visit whatever they happened to take a pic of. and over the past few days in talks with others, they dont even load points in their gps--now, how hard would that be? and, how pissed off would you be if you filled your gps with marks to visit, and then found many of them 'missing' when you got there?

Yes that would be annoying, however, you might be the first person to let the owner know it's gone.

i have been the first to let some know that marks arent there--

the Xmas store is closed.

the benchmark has been paved over.

and several other odds and ends. i just hope that the practice doesnt become too wide spread--thatll be one sure way to run n00bs off: hundereds of posted marks you cant visit cause they arent there anymore......

its one thing to say, its not there anymore, and another to say this hasnt been here for years.....

chapterhouseinc:

maybe there needs to be 2 tabs on a category. the first will be all marks that you can currently go visit. and another 'archived tab'--so you could see the historical account of where the 'artomats' were. thus, you can safely archive them, and they are still accessable by the public--not just those who know where the secret room we keep them is in.

people still visit. most in person. many are retrovisits. [though, few actually chande the date on their log from today.].

I like this.

BQ

TheBeanTeam:

silverquill:

Should these actually be archived?

Some I make invisible.

Others I put (GONE)  or (MOVED) in bold letters in the title and then update the descriptions.

So, wouldn't this solve the problem of someone downloading a waymark and not knowing if it is missing?  I would think that if the notice is in the Waymark title like that, then it would show up that way.  Still there to see, but the alert is visible to all.   Other explanation, if known, can be added to the description fields.

That leaves it up to each individual waymarker to do, but so would archiving.  I guess a category owner or officers with privileges could do an edit, though that is more questionable.

i like to wait until someone else posts a log WITH PICS. stating/showing the mark is no longer there-even if i know its not there myself (see the McDs in Epcot, Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios).

but i have also archived a few thrift stores that are no longer open.

but i think that is the crux of the issue here: too many individuals doing their individual thing.

yes, changing the name would signify it isnt ther, but then adds another step to loading points in your gps--you have to delete those that arent there.

what if you dont have time for that step and you just dump them all to gps? then you drive miles into nowhere for a set of marks to get there and figure out they no longer exist?

silverquill:

BruceS:

The visits are still there.  There really is no need to archive a waymark unless it no longer there thus another person would not be waymarking the spot.

I was just going to add a note to the waymarks.   I waymarked a mural that I pass everyday, but a couple of weeks ago the entire building was demolished.  But, I still want people to see the mural on the waymark.  And, our campus clock has likewise just been removed for new construction.  (Going on all the time here).  Again, I just thought a note in the short and long descriptions should be sufficient. 

Should these actually be archived?

No. Mark them as Legacy, and restrict visits to dates before it was demolished. Also be a stickler for the visit requirements.

chapterhouseinc:

right. but how many marks out there now are considered to be in BQ's 'legacy' status? how many marks are posted for people to visit, but are not there to visit. a good example--the yoda lego statue in Downtown Disney. t hasnt been there since mid2007. how long does it have to stay there? it isnt that your archived marks will dissappear, they just wount be easily findable. the several time i tried to manipulate my marks and see just the archived one i hit bugs--and ended up just moving on.... so then, it the sote eventually going to be come a listing of things that arent there anymore, but used to be? if you cant visit it, it shouldnt be listed.

Do not forget retrovisits.

There seems to be two schools of thought here.
One, which believes it's a pain in the keester to have downloaded defunct waymarks onto their GPS.
And two, which feels the effort into which is generally put into creating a waymark shouldn't be so quickly squandered. So I wonder how hard is it to delete a waymark from your GPS? Oh sure it may be disappointing to get somewhere and find the reason why you went is gone, but you just might be the first person to find this out and therefore wouldn't it then be your responsibility to inform the waymark owner? Plus, who hasn't had something like this happen to them when they weren't (Gasp!) waymarking? Post the results of the trip and move on.

If TPTB should ever make an official decision on this, then of course, that'll be that. Personally, if they do I hope they just go with making the necessary updates. Until then, if anybody goes to find anything I've posted and they tell me it's gone, my waymark may be the only proof that it ever existed. I wont feel bad a trip had been made for nothing. It won't have been for nothing. It'll have been for the current information regarding the location's status. I will feel bad if I were to be told I had to dump a perfectly good waymark, or even a mediocre one. (Wait, why would I waymark mediocrity?) While it is true an archived waymark doesn't just disappear, it just isn't easily found. Which if what was waymarked should resurface good luck finding your archived waymark. No problem if you remember its code, if not you gotta bother somebody else.

Just update it and wish the Griswolds of the world good luck.

Anyway, one other thing to keep in mind is most of what seems to get waymarked generally isn't going anywhere anytime soon. So, out of 200,000+ waymarks, how many are we talking? Can anyone gives us actual numbers (Bruce?) Or a percentage?

With just over one year of waymarking, I have 11 archived out of roughly 1500, which is 0.7%.  So if this one ratio is representative of all, then out of 200,000 waymarks, around 1450 are archived.

Four were independent restuarants which have closed in the bad economy.  Four were abstract art pieces that I had not realized were not permanent, thus have moved on. Should these have been marked as legacy to continue show off the pieces?  One was a payphone (and I believe I have one or two more of these to archive as cell phones take over). 

Then the reason I am posting.  Two were duplicates to existing waymarks that both myself and the reviewer failed to notice until after they were approved.  Through another thread I have learned that my practice of just putting in the whole degree coordinates first to ensure the waymark "save and continue" does not bomb (error out) after I have put in 15-20 minutes of research and writing... does not have the proximity checker to flag the duplicate once the detailed coords are entered.  I now have a practice of rechecking the area for duplicates before final submission.  But these two duplicates are just errors on my part (and now visits for the original waymarks).  If I thought archived waymarks would be more visible, then the long description could be updated with a note that it was duplicate, please see the original at its waymark code.

My take is that the 10% of archived waymarks due to error is not an issue if the approach is that a separate archived area had to be searched.  If archived waymarks started to appear with the main set, then guess would have to hide them (which seems to not stay put) so to not clutter up the area with duplicates.

Waymarking continues to grow up as time passes...

 

 

 

Waymarks archived due to technical invalidity should just go away.

Waymarks archived because the object being waymarked is gone should have a new "flag": Legacy. And Legacy waymarks should not be included in group .LOC or .GPX downloads.

Individual .LOC or .GPX downloads would still be available.

And when the iPhone app* comes out, there should be an option to not display Legacy waymarks.

*just a dream right now.

technical invalidity?

i will agree that they shouldnt be in loc files--but thats why they get archived.

eh, legacy flag.

why not just have an archived marks tab on each category:
i search for McDs. i click the category. what i see is all VISITABLE marks. but there is a 'TAB' (or other 'search link to the right of the category) that will then only display the McDs that are no longer visitable (archived).

along these lines is that your stat tab will say you have 100 McDs, but when i click the number it is only 99. why does the archived mark disappear to everyone but the poster? something with a 'red line through it' is a more acceptable way.

note: i have not tried to find any waymark i have visited that has been archived, but, this is one possibility from manipulating the 'advanced' search, right.....

i phone app, what about getting the facebook stat banner to work? my caching one looks fine....

chapterhouseinc:

why not just have an archived marks tab on each category: i search for McDs. i click the category. what i see is all VISITABLE marks. but there is a 'TAB' (or other 'search link to the right of the category) that will then only display the McDs that are no longer visitable (archived).

This would be fine.

Throwing in another wrinkle -- as a librarian with an interest in local history --  the category makes a difference. 

Categories like National Register of Historic Places or American Guide Series .. if we see one of  those  & waymark it & two years later a fire or bulldozer happens, I think we want the waymark to remain as a  historic record with updated info.  (I tipped off  BruceS that one of his 2006 National Register entries had gone up in smoke as the result of some stupid teenage firebugs & he updated the long description  with a link to the news articles.)

Waymarks for vanished payphones or penny smashers could just "go away." 

Maybe each category management team could add some thoughts on updating vs. "archive"  appropriate to their category in the category descriptions & posting requirements.   

For folks that just grab a batch of coordinates & go hunting without reading descriptions to know what they're being pointed towards -- there are some really unusual categories that are not country specific . You could be standing near a unique manhole cover , or that unremarkable building  nearby could be a  relocated structure.   Vintage ad locations could currently be vacant lots.  I've posted local waymarks in each of these categories, and without the descriptions the locations are unremarkable.
Regards, Stan Schulz, Library Director, Kilgore Memorial Library, York, NE

Does archiving a waymark decrease our number of waymarks in our stats?